Nikola Telsa - Before his time or right on time?

[Derrezed]

So after getting into physics I repeatedly heard of this great man and after investigating him a little more I realized he was one of the greatest minds of the 19th/20th century. I never remember hearing about him in high school which is somewhat disgraceful but irrelevant. This man started the modern day technological revolution and had many ideas way ahead of his time. Do you think he's was better off being born when he was (racial prejudices, government mistreatment of non-native born citizens etc.) or could he have accomplished so much more if born a few decades later. Also any information on him that isn't in the first five pages of Google would be much appreciated :)

 

[KrisOhn]

I think he was more beneficial to have lived at the same time as Edison, so the War of Currents could take place, if he hadn't lived then we might be stuck with direct current today.

 

[Drakkith]

I think he was in the right place at the right time and had enough knowledge to make a difference.

 

[zoobyshoe]

There are several biographies of Tesla out there. I've read three or four. He was a fascinating character.

You have to be careful when assessing his greatness because one of the things he was great at is creating his own legend. A lot of the things his fans say about him today were notions he created about himself. He courted newspaper reporters and spent a lot of time giving interviews, and he had a way of describing his work/research that strongly invited characterizations of him as a radical, visionary, genius. He spun himself very well, much more often than he was able to back it up with practical results. The revolutionary turbine, the earthquake generator, the magnifying transmitter, none of these panned out, but still somehow their legend is repeated today as if they had. That's really due to the air of creative genius he was able to suggest when he talked about himself, just by being convinced, himself, deep down, that what he was doing was really pretty remarkable and visionary. If you pare the legend down to the things he invented that actually worked and had practical value, he's quite a bit less stunning.

His showmanship served him well in the age he inhabited, and he might not do so well with it in today's world.

 

[wuliheron]

It was a magical time and he was one of the more flamboyant magicians. Think about all the magical inventions of the time and his don't seem all that special. However, I have heard him described as a visionary which seems appropriate. For Edison genius was one per cent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration, but for Tesla it was at least an equal part artistic expression.

 

[Chi Meson]

It was a magical time and he was one of the more flamboyant magicians. Think about all the magical inventions of the time and his don't seem all that special. However, I have heard him described as a visionary which seems appropriate. For Edison genius was one per cent inspiration and ninety-nine per cent perspiration, but for Tesla it was at least an equal part artistic expression.

Tesla had said of Edison "...but a little bit of calculation would have saved 90 percent of his labor."
[or words to that effect]

I always give Tesla his due in my Physics classes, but warn against the "Teslamaniacs" on the web. Nikolai was on that crazy edge of genius, and apparently toward the edge he was just over that edge.

Some of his followers are pure crackpot conspiracy nuts who think he was an alien genius whose ideas were stolen by the government after they poisoned him and used his destruction machines once against the Russians and decided they were too dangerous and destroyed them and the blueprints and erased memories and tried to expunge Tesla from all history and scientific records but THEY FORGOT ABOUT ME AND NOW THE WORD IS OUT AH HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAA!

 

[wuliheron]

Tesla had said of Edison "...but a little bit of calculation would have saved 90 percent of his labor."
[or words to that effect]

I always give Tesla his due in my Physics classes, but warn against the "Teslamaniacs" on the web. Nikolai was on that crazy edge of genius, and apparently toward the edge he was just over that edge.

Tesla didn't take his own advice which is one reason I refer to him as being as much an artist as anything else.

 

[Derrezed]

He wasn't a magician he invented alternate current, the radio, the remote control, the ac induction motor and merely envisioned all the other things he might be able to invent. Just by looking at what he invented he was one of the most remarkable minds of the 19/20th century. Its sad to see him discredited on a PHYSICS forum of all places. I am not a telsamaniac or a crackpot I was just hoping for some further insight on the man who invented commercial electricity. I mean why even mention all the stuff he thought he could create when what he created was so damn important and ingenious.

 

[zoobyshoe]

P.S As far as Edison is concerned he discovered electricity on intuition and the light bulb was almost an accident (if he didn't have filament in his kite he never would have thought of it) and it still took him 1000 tries to zero in on the effect. He was also a great man but again some calculation and understanding of inert gases would have saved him a lot of time.

I'm confused by this.

 

[Drakkith]

Just by looking at what he invented he was one of the most remarkable minds of the 19/20th century. Its sad to see him discredited on a PHYSICS forum of all places.

I have yet to see where anyone has discredited him.

 

[Derrezed]

I have yet to see where anyone has discredited him.

Calling him a Magician and crediting his genius to his flamboyancy

 

[zoobyshoe]

In a biography I read on Edison it says that filament in his kite glowed when the kite was stuck by lightning, thus spawned the idea for the light bulb

As far as I know, Benjamin Franklin was the kite flyer. He's usually credited as the "discoverer" of electricity, though that's not exactly accurate. He merely demonstrated that lightning and static electric discharges are the same thing on a different scale.

 

[edward]

Tesla realized what could be done with electricity at a time when few others did.

In November and December of 1887, Tesla filed for seven U.S. patents in the field of polyphase AC motors and power transmission. These comprised a complete system of generators, transformers, transmission lines, motors and lighting. So original were the ideas that they were issued without a successful challenge, and would turn out to be the most valuable patents since the telephone.

http://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_warcur.html

We tend to think and talk about his more flamboyant ideas, yet he had practical knowledge.

Nikola Tesla and George Westinghouse built the first hydro-electric power plant in 1895 in Niagara Falls and started the electrification of the world

http://www.teslasociety.com/exhibition.htm

 

[Derrezed]

As far as I know, Benjamin Franklin was the kite flyer. He's usually credited as the "discoverer" of electricity, though that's not exactly accurate. He merely demonstrated that lightning and static electric discharges are the same thing on a different scale.

Duh I meant that's where Edison got the idea In the biography he mentions that, Thank you for pointing that out fixed it

 

[Containment]

I'v seen this type of question asked one to many times without anyone really going into it so... What would the world really look like if someone went back with a time machine and plucked him out of history? Would we be ten to twenty years behind the times or would somehow his absence been a boon technologically? From what I know he did spend a fortune of his family's wealth in his life time chasing his ideas. Would that wealth have been better spent in someone else's hands? Is there really any way to know if the world would have been better or worse off without him? Or suppose he was born now would he really be able to fulfill his dreams of splitting the Earth in two with our current technology?

 

[Drakkith]

Calling him a Magician and crediting his genius to his flamboyancy

Neither of which diminishes the impact of his inventions and are just one aspect of his personality. Furthermore, please refrain from attributing the views of 1 person to being the views of everyone here on PF.

 

[Drakkith]

What would the world really look like if someone went back with a time machine and plucked him out of history?

How can we possibly know this? Offhand I would guess that we would still be pretty much the same. Had we used DC instead of AC for power transmission there would have been a large push for improvements, probably leading to better, safer, more efficient designs for DC earlier than we actually developed them.

 

[Derrezed]

I wasn't saying it was the views of everybody, just everywhere I read about him he is either a genius or a nut job.

 

[zoobyshoe]

How can we possibly know this? Offhand I would guess that we would still be pretty much the same. Had we used DC instead of AC for power transmission there would have been a large push for improvements, probably leading to better, safer, more efficient designs for DC earlier than we actually developed them.

Tesla wasn't unique in knowing AC was better than DC for long distance transmission. Every competent EE of the day figured it out. It was an obvious consequence of the fact AC can be easily transformed to higher voltages. With DC, you're stuck with the generation voltage, and the lower the voltage the more limited the effective transmission distance. The transformer effect requires the current be constantly changing. DC is unchanging. Tesla wasn't so much a genius for knowing AC was better as Edison was a dolt for not knowing it.

Westinghouse, who was the mover and shaker behind it all (Tesla was making no attempt to implement his inventions, himself) examined a lot of patents for AC transmission and AC operated motors. Tesla had covered everything in his patents, as Edward pointed out, and dealing with one inventor was obviously a advantage over dealing with several, so he approached Tesla first, and Tesla bent over backward to be cooperative and help engineer it all.

The fact is, without Tesla, AC would probably only have been delayed for as long as it took Westinghouse to get the patents he needed from other sources. Other people had invented AC motors (the common induction motor), and IIRC Tesla admitted that one of them preceded him by a couple years. (It was one of those cases where the guy didn't bother to put in for a patent right away, so Tesla beat him on that front, without either of them knowing the other existed.)

 

[Drakkith]

Interesting Zooby. I've never really read up on Tesla that much, all I remember is something about AC vs DC and other tidbits.

 

[Chi Meson]

I wasn't saying it was the views of everybody, just everywhere I read about him he is either a genius or a nut job.

Why can't it be both? Professor Farnsworth with an accent.

 

[f95toli]

I wasn't saying it was the views of everybody, just everywhere I read about him he is either a genius or a nut job.

It is perfectly possible to be both. There are plenty of examples of famous scientists that contributed greatly to their field, but who has/had some very strange ideas. Many great scientist have drifted into crackpottery towards the end of their career (and some end up with real mental health problems),
Luc Montagnier would be an obvious modern example.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Interesting Zooby. I've never really read up on Tesla that much, all I remember is something about AC vs DC and other tidbits.

I googled and find that I have either misremembered that history, or encountered a somewhat different version in another book.

This book: http://books.google.com/books?id=_1...Q#v=onepage&q=war westinghouse edison&f=false

maintains that Westinghouse actually did buy a lot of other AC patents before approaching Tesla, and he went to Tesla only because he wanted Tesla's motor patent.

This, though, only underscores the fact that Tesla was, by no means, the only inventor applying himself to AC.

This link is also very interesting because it casts Westinghouse and his chief engineer, Stanley, as people who, independent of any inventor, investigated the possibilities and ramifications of AC, Stanley engineering a whole scheme for generation, transforming, and transmission, by himself, before Tesla was brought in on the enterprise.

Outside a Tesla biography Tesla becomes more and more minor. Within a Tesla biography, he is the Alternating Current Messiah who changed the world. I really think that goes back to how he spun himself during his lifetime: during his fascinating lecture-demonstrations, in his writings about his research, and to reporters in the many interviews. He really was an awesome character; endlessly interesting.

 

[Derrezed]

Why can't it be both? Professor Farnsworth with an accent.

Well since you put in terms i can understand I have to agree with you :)

 

[Derrezed]

I googled and find that I have either misremembered that history, or encountered a somewhat different version in another book.

This book: http://books.google.com/books?id=_1...Q#v=onepage&q=war westinghouse edison&f=false

maintains that Westinghouse actually did buy a lot of other AC patents before approaching Tesla, and he went to Tesla only because he wanted Tesla's motor patent.

This, though, only underscores the fact that Tesla was, by no means, the only inventor applying himself to AC.

This link is also very interesting because it casts Westinghouse and his chief engineer, Stanley, as people who, independent of any inventor, investigated the possibilities and ramifications of AC, Stanley engineering a whole scheme for generation, transforming, and transmission, by himself, before Tesla was brought in on the enterprise.

Outside a Tesla biography Tesla becomes more and more minor. Within a Tesla biography, he is the Alternating Current Messiah who changed the world. I really think that goes back to how he spun himself during his lifetime: during his fascinating lecture-demonstrations, in his writings about his research, and to reporters in the many interviews. He really was an awesome character; endlessly interesting.

I guess I need to read up more on Tesla from non-tesla sources, though Westinghouse and J.P Morgan came out quite a bit better from the deal than Tesla did that's for certain.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I guess I need to read up more on Tesla from non-tesla sources, though Westinghouse and J.P Morgan came out quite a bit better from the deal than Tesla did that's for certain.

Westinghouse, yes. Morgan, no.

Morgan gave Tesla a lot of money for the purpose of erecting a working magnifying transmitter on the east coast. Tesla told Morgan that it could be used as a long distance transmitter which would allow Morgan to have his own private communication system. The following dialog is reported in the book "Wizard The Life and Times of Nikola Tesla":

"Don't push my tolerance, Mr. Tesla. Your proposal as far as I understand only deals with telegraphy. I'm a simple man who wants a way to signal incoming steamers during times of fog, to send messages to Europe, maybe get Wall Street prices when I'm in England. Can you do this? Can you send wireless messages such long distances?"

"Indeed I can, Mr. Morgan."

p.248

Long story short: Tesla never got the transmitter running and Morgan lost his investment.

Tesla: Man Out of Time, and Tesla: Prodigal Genius are the two famous biographies that really pump him up, especially the latter. They're great reading. Wizard is more objective but less fun to read. Tesla's own little autobiography, My Inventions, is the most fun of all.