Nodal analysis, choosing reference node confusion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of choosing a reference node in nodal analysis for circuit analysis. Participants explore the implications of selecting different nodes as the reference point for measuring voltages in a circuit, including how this choice affects voltage results while leaving current unchanged.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that a reference node must be designated for measuring voltages in nodal analysis, questioning the choice of node N2 as the reference in a specific example.
  • Another participant asserts that any node can be chosen as a reference node, explaining that the choice is arbitrary and likening it to measuring height from different reference points.
  • It is stated that while the voltage results will change based on the reference node chosen, the current values will remain the same.
  • A participant expresses confusion about how the results from a simulator matched the values obtained using N2 as the reference node.
  • Another participant suggests that the simulator's choice of N2 as the ground node was coincidental, indicating that different reference nodes could yield different voltage results.
  • A later reply indicates understanding that the arbitrary choice of reference node can serve as a method to verify the correctness of current calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the choice of reference node is arbitrary and affects voltage results but not current. However, there is some confusion regarding how this relates to the results obtained from simulations, indicating a lack of consensus on the implications of these findings.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of choosing different reference nodes without resolving the nuances of how this choice interacts with specific circuit configurations or simulation results.

thegreengineer
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I know that when we have to identify the nodes for solving a circuit with nodal analysis we always have to designate a reference node (which will be the ground node) as a reference for measuring the others' voltages. However I was practicing this and I found this example on http://mathonweb.com/help/backgd5b.htm:
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlp1/v/t1.0-9/11205488_1641308579487013_7202709367008535386_n.jpg?oh=1008d277d5d6a59d6e351ba41bb3af4e&oe=56601DF3​
It seems that one of them will be the reference or ground node (this means one of them will be at 0 V). The problem chose node N2 as the reference node. After using Kirchhoff's current law for each node they found that:
V1=-35.88 V
V2=0 V
V3= 63.74 V
V4= 0.19 V
My question is: what if I chose another node (for example N4) as the reference node for measuring the other voltages? Would it change my final results? And if it did so, how to know which node will be the real reference node? And I'm questioning this because I did this circuit on an online simulator and it turned out that those were the correct results so it seems that they chose the right node as the ground (I know that when we have to choose the reference node it is easier to choose that node the one that has more branches, but in this case both N2 and N4 have the same number of branches connected to them). I'm leaving the URL here for that simulation

http://lushprojects.com/circuitjs/c...84+0+60 v+192+384+192+296+0+0+40+300+0+0+0.5
 
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You can choose any node as a reference node. Do you understand what reference node is (ground)?
Try read this: http://www.ittc.ku.edu/~jstiles/312/handouts/312_Introduction_package.pdf (start from page 3)
To measure the voltage we need two point in the space. One of this point is treat as a reference point. We have a very similarity situation when we try to measure a height of an object. We need a reference point. The most common reference pint is "above mean sea level". But when you measure the height of the table in your house the floor now becomes your reference point.
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/rys0-1-jpg.69517/
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=69517&stc=1&d=1399478598
MarcusAu314 said:
My question is: what if I chose another node (for example N4) as the reference node for measuring the other voltages? Would it change my final results?
Yes, the result will change (the voltage result will change but the current will not change).
MarcusAu314 said:
And if it did so, how to know which node will be the real reference node?
There is no such thing as a "real reference node".
 
Jony130 said:
Yes, the result will change (the voltage result will change but the current will not change).
So how did the results actually match the values of the simulator?
 
MarcusAu314 said:
So how did the results actually match the values of the simulator?
Simply by accident the simulation program chosen N2 as a reference node.

See this example when we have N2 as GND (the upper one) and N1 as GND (the the lower one)
 

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Ah ya, so it doesn't matter at all which node will be chosen as the reference node, so this thing about choosing it arbitrarily can be used as a method to check if currents are solved in the correct manner. Understood. Thanks.
 

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