Noether's theorem time invariance -- mean value theorem use?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the mean value theorem in the context of Noether's theorem and time invariance. Participants seek clarification on how the mean value theorem is utilized in a specific step of the argument, exploring its implications and definitions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for clarification on the use of the mean value theorem in a specific context related to Noether's theorem.
  • Another participant provides a statement of the mean value theorem for integrals, suggesting that for small intervals, the function value approaches the value at the lower limit.
  • Several participants express confusion about the specific statement of the mean value theorem being referenced, indicating they could not find it in standard sources.
  • One participant attempts to clarify the mean value theorem for definite integrals, showing how it can be derived from the theorem previously mentioned.
  • Another participant reiterates the derivation of the mean value theorem for definite integrals, confirming the relationship between the integral and the function's average value over the interval.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express confusion and disagreement regarding the specific statement of the mean value theorem being used. There is no consensus on the correct formulation or its application in the context discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference different sources for the mean value theorem, indicating potential discrepancies in definitions or interpretations. The discussion highlights the need for clarity regarding the assumptions and conditions under which the theorem is applied.

Tush19
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Screenshot 2022-01-06 at 00.54.20.png

how does the first step use mean value theorem? I don't get it , can anyone explain , thanks.
 
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The mean value theorem states that
$$
\int_x^{x+\delta x} f(s) ds = \delta x\, f(x^*)
$$
where ##x \leq x^* \leq x + \delta x##. Since ##f## is continuous, ##f(x^*) \to f(x)## for small ##\delta x##.
 
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Orodruin said:
The mean value theorem states that
$$
\int_x^{x+\delta x} f(s) ds = \delta x\, f(x^*)
$$
where ##x \leq x^* \leq x + \delta x##. Since ##f## is continuous, ##f(x^*) \to f(x)## for small ##\delta x##.
thanks but I couldn't find that mean value theorem statement anywhere ,all it shows that mean value theorem is the following
1641479493425-png.png
 
Just to add: The mean value theorem for definite integrals is easy to obtain from the theorem you quoted. Just consider that
$$
(b-a) f’(c) = f(b) - f(a) = \int_a^b f’(x) dx
$$
and let ##g(x) = f’(x)##. You now have
$$
\int_a^b g(x) dx = (b-a) g(c)
$$
for some ##c## such that ##a\leq c\leq b##.
 
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Orodruin said:
Just to add: The mean value theorem for definite integrals is easy to obtain from the theorem you quoted. Just consider that
$$
(b-a) f’(c) = f(b) - f(a) = \int_a^b f’(x) dx
$$
and let ##g(x) = f’(x)##. You now have
$$
\int_a^b g(x) dx = (b-a) g(c)
$$
for some ##c## such that ##a\leq c\leq b##.
thank you so much
 

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