Norton's Theorem and Thevenin's theorem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the Norton equivalent source between terminals A and B in a circuit, comparing it with Thevenin's theorem. Participants explore the application of circuit analysis techniques, including KCL, KVL, and source transformations, while addressing a homework problem.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using KCL to find the short circuit current, leading to an expression involving the voltage at a node and the current through a resistor.
  • Another participant points out an error in assuming the voltage at the node is non-zero during the short circuit and recommends using the Superposition Principle for simplification.
  • A third participant discusses source transformations, calculating the current from a voltage source and combining it with another current to find the short circuit current.
  • Participants also calculate the equivalent resistance for the Norton equivalent circuit, leading to a proposed Norton current and resistance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the initial approach to the problem, as participants offer different methods and corrections. The discussion reflects multiple competing views on how to analyze the circuit.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the implications of short-circuiting and the application of source transformations, indicating a need for careful consideration of circuit conditions.

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Homework Statement



For some reason I don't use this theorem since Thevenin's theorem is more common. I'm asked to find the Norton equivalent source between the terminals ##A## and ##B## for the following:

Screen Shot 2014-12-11 at 4.23.33 PM.png


Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution



The first step is to short ##R_2##, and to find the short circuit current across that wiring.

Screen Shot 2014-12-11 at 4.23.33 PM.png


I believe KCL at the node above the ##3 mA## would be useful:

##\sum I = 0 \Rightarrow 3mA + I_{sc} - I_R = 0 \Rightarrow I_{sc} = I_R - 3mA = \frac{V_{Node} + 20V}{4k} - 3mA##

Now ##V_{Node}## is the voltage across the ##3 mA##. Applying KVL around the left loop using the current source as a constraint:

##\sum V = 0 \Rightarrow 20V + V_R + V_{Node} = 0 \Rightarrow V_{Node} = -(20V + V_R) = -(20V + (3mA)(4k)) = - 32V##

This implies that ##I_{sc} = \frac{-32V + 20V}{4k} - 3mA = - 6mA##.

Is this reasonable?
 
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You went astray when you wrote equations with ##V_{Node}##. The short circuit forces ##V_{Node}## to be zero volts. If you think about the Superposition Principle you can take advantage of that, since it makes calculating the current contribution of the 20 V source quite simple.

If I may suggest another approach? Start by converting the 20V source and R1 to their Norton equivalent. Then take advantage of parallel connections to simplify...
 
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Ah source transforms, those are awfully useful and I hardly ever use them.

First, ##V = -IR \Rightarrow I = \frac{-20V}{4k} = -5mA## so ##-5mA## points up or ##5mA## points down. Also, the ##5 mA## is in parallel with the ##4k## now.

So the combined current in parallel is ##-5mA + 3mA = -2mA##. This is the only current in this new circuit (comprised of the current source, 4k resistor and shorted 6k resistor). Hence ##I_{sc} = -2mA##.

Now going back to the original circuit, short circuiting the voltage and open circuiting the current source, we find:

##R_{th} = (\frac{1}{4k} + \frac{1}{6k})^{-1} = \frac{12k}{5}##

Hence the norton equivalent would be ##-2mA## pointing up in parallel with ##R_{th}##.
 
There you go! Much less brain sweat required :)
 

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