Is Canada a Safer Alternative After Zimmerman Verdict?

[WannabeNewton]

Sure, we can argue legalistic semantics about how the two cases cannot be compared, but ask yourself this: when you look at the two verdicts, do you really *feel* the cause of justice is being served down there in Florida? I sure as heck don't.

It's probably not worth making any sense out of what happens in Florida. Save yourself the trouble.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

It's probably not worth making any sense out of what happens in Florida. Save yourself the trouble.

Now that's something I can agree with. This is the state that gave us the hanging chads (2000 election), Casey Anthony's acquittal and Professor James Tracy (who effectively accused the grieving Newtown, CT parents of participating in a massive fraud).

 

[jim hardy]

I think this will somehow make its way to supreme court as a federal challenge to all the state "stand your ground" laws.

 

[nsaspook]

I think this will somehow make its way to supreme court as a federal challenge to all the state "stand your ground" laws.

I think it's very unlikely that any sort of Federal challenge will succeed in over-turning a general state law based on the Castle doctrine “no duty to retreat” and it's also very unlikely anything from this or Marissa Alexander's case will help either side in that challenge.

Oregon Law: http://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/state-v-sandoval-156-p-3d-60-or-supreme-court-2007/
http://www.pdxcriminallawyers.com/articles-by-castleberry-elison/oregons-stand-your-ground-statute/

 

[Tosh5457]

Please, why don't you focus on all the other murder processes going on? Or else just admit that you think the US justice system is racist, because this is what this trial was all about. When people get outraged from a black guy killing a white guy, I'll start paying attention, because people act like racism only exists one-way.

 

[WannabeNewton]

The riots in LA and elsewhere are just ridiculous. People really need to get a mind of their own and not blindly follow what the media tells them; it isn't exactly a revelation that news outlets nowadays are a far cry from Walter Kronkite's CBS. Sheeple, sheeple everywhere.

 

[leroyjenkens]

The riots in LA and elsewhere are just ridiculous. People really need to get a mind of their own and not blindly follow what the media tells them; it isn't exactly a revelation that news outlets nowadays are a far cry from Walter Kronkite's CBS. Sheeple, sheeple everywhere.

Those are people with no responsibilities. They need something to do.

 

[WannabeNewton]

You know that once the NAACP gets involved, things are going to get needlessly messy.

 

[Travis_King]

I was browsing reddit today and a user by the handle "themanbat" posted an interesting response to the trial results:

In spite of all the trial coverage and media rehashing of this case, it's amazing how few people seem to realize what the evidence is that surprisingly clearly shows happened that night. Zimmerman wasn't just not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. He was obviously innocent of any criminal act, and frankly in my opinion on completely morally sound ground.
The facts:
--Zimmerman claimed to be trying to follow from a safe distance just so police would have a chance to question Martin. There had been break ins and what George did really isn't any different than what other neighborhood watches have done in the past. Martin didn't like being followed so he gave Zimmerman the slip, hid in the shadows, waiting for Zimmerman to pass, and then Martin approached Zimmerman from behind, initiated the confrontation and broke Zimmerman's nose. No evidence or testimony has ever contradicted this.

--Other than the single point blank gun shot wound, Martin had no injuries. Zimmerman on the other hand looked beaten all to hell. This was consistent with Zimmerman being on the receiving end of an unexpected one sided beat down.

--When investigating officers lied and told Zimmerman that they had footage of the incident, Zimmerman was relieved, and said something along the lines of, "Thank God! I was hoping someone would have filmed to help prove what happened." This convinced the officer that Zimmerman was telling the truth.

--Trayvon who has been regularly depicted in the media as younger and practically a saint, was actually suspended from school, not for being absent, but for having drugs and possible stolen goods at school. While he no doubt also had his sweet side, his twitter handle was “No_Limit_Nigga” filled with gangsta nonsense, and the only racial slurs ever uttered in the case were said by Trayvon and not Zimmerman. I'm not saying that any of this proves Trayvon was guilty or by any means deserved to die. The only thing that the evidence clearly points to Trayvon being guilty of is initiating the Assault on Zimmerman.

--The officers who investigated the shooting found no probable cause for arrest, because every part of Zimmerman's story was supported by the limited evidence. The chief of police later lost his job because he refused to arrest Zimmerman without more evidence, despite all the political pressure. The normal prosecutor didn't take this case for 'mysterious' reasons, likely because he didn't want to take a losing case and prosecute a man who as so obviously innocent. Normally the prosecutor gets to decide if he wants to pursue a case, but not this time, the activist pressure was too high. Even the ringers they brought into substitute never really presented a good alternate explanation, and admitted in summation that the only two who really knew what happened were Zimmerman and Trayvon. It's obviously way past reasonable doubt when even the prosecutor can't say he knows the guy did it.

--Essentially this open and shut case only went to trial because racist racial activists went off before the facts were in and they even realized that George Zimmerman wasn't even white.
You can argue that getting out of the car wasn't smart, but the evidence shows George Zimmerman did nothing wrong.

THE SOURCES (Since everyone I mention this to immediately asks me for them anyway.)
Point 1. The videotaped walkthrough of the scene of the crime and the recounting of that night that Zimmerman did with the police.

Point 2. Summaries of the autopsy of Martin and medical examination of Zimmerman's injuries.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/world/Trayvon+Martin+wound+backs+shooter+story+pathologist+says/8638161/story.html
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/06/10/george-zimmerman-murder-trayvon-martin-autopsy
Point 3. The investigating officer testifying on the "It looks like he recorded the whole thing," bluff. Skip to 1:16:00 to cut to the chase.

Point 4. Links on Martin's Checkered past.
Caught with Weed Pipe and Marijuana Bag at school - http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Trayvon-Martin-Suspended-From-School-Three-Times-Report-144403305.html
Caught with suspected stolen property and burglarly tools at school - http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html
Thug life Twitter Feed: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/the-daily-caller-obtains-trayvon-martins-tweets/
Martin's Racial Slurs: http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/saturday-night-card-game-would-zimmerman-case-have-been-filed-if-creepy-***-cracker-comment-known/
Point 5. Video of the interview with the Police chief who was fired for refusing to arrest Zimmerman for lack of evidence.
TLDR - Everyone has an opinion on this case, but surprisingly few have taken the time to learn the facts. There is no evidence that George Zimmerman did anything wrong.

Now, I've not gone through and verified all this information, and the guy obviously hasn't fully divorced his response from opinion and a bit of speculation, but the links are legitimate and I thought it offered a better perspective on the issue than that which most media outlets have provided. (I'm also not entirely sure I agree with the conclusion about him not having done anything wrong...given that someone is dead and I haven't looked into it very deeply) I didn't follow this issue at all, so any information I had taken in was from snippets here and there, I think I watched a couple minute summary once recently. As far as I knew, some gun-happy rent-a-cop gunned down an unarmed kid (all the news photo's I saw in passing showed Treyvon as a boy, not a teen).

 

[AnTiFreeze3]

The riots in LA and elsewhere are just ridiculous. People really need to get a mind of their own and not blindly follow what the media tells them; it isn't exactly a revelation that news outlets nowadays are a far cry from Walter Kronkite's CBS. Sheeple, sheeple everywhere.

The media almost instigated the riots themselves. They were expecting them to occur, claiming that there might be upheaval in response to the verdict.

And Kronkite, while a great newsman, wasn't the sweetest or most innocent guy in the world

 

[AnTiFreeze3]

I think this will somehow make its way to supreme court as a federal challenge to all the state "stand your ground" laws.

As it has been mentioned previously in this thread, the Stand-your-ground law was never even mentioned in court during the Zimmerman trial. This would be highly unlikely. There are certainly similarities between the law, and the occurrence between Zimmerman and Martin, and I'm all for any discussion of the Stand-your-ground law that this case has instigated, but the Supreme Court would be incapable of making a decision about the Stand-your-ground law by using a case that doesn't involve the Stand-your-ground law.

 

[BobG]

I'll get back to some earlier statements, but right now I'm watching an AC360 interview with a juror. Some excerpts:

That's an interesting juror. A video of the entire 20-minute voir dire is on line (only the audio of the prospective jurors is filmed). She doesn't trust the media and seems to actively avoid all news (I wonder if she votes? In fact, I almost wonder if she ever met Dr Walter Freeman).

She also seemed very eager to serve on the jury. While she doesn't follow the news, she does watch the Today show - she had already made arrangements that if she was selected for jury duty, her husband would tape the show every morning and then edit all of the news out of it for her. She had already made arrangements to have her husband and daughters care for her pets if the jury was sequestered (she doesn't know how many pets she has).

Why Did They Let Her on the Zimmerman Jury?

Suddenly, the knock-knock joke attorney West made during opening arguments almost makes sense.

 

[phoenix:\\]

The riots in LA and elsewhere are just ridiculous. People really need to get a mind of their own and not blindly follow what the media tells them; it isn't exactly a revelation that news outlets nowadays are a far cry from Walter Kronkite's CBS. Sheeple, sheeple everywhere.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/07/16/about_those_riots.html

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...an-verdict-riots-trayvon-martin-protests.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...merman-ve/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS

http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/George-Zimmerman-riots-LA-to-deploy-more-police-to-prevent-disturbances-215757451.html

http://rt.com/usa/california-zimmerman-protest-police-152/

The last link details that it was pockets of violent protestors engaging in acts of criminal behavior.

I would like to see your sources though because I looked to see these "riots" you spoke of, but couldn't find anything substantiating your claim.

P.S.

There is always instigators capitalizing on events such as this, not all protests are peaceful demonstrations. Some jerk will try to make it more than it has to be.

 

[Tosh5457]

--Trayvon who has been regularly depicted in the media as younger and practically a saint, was actually suspended from school, not for being absent, but for having drugs and possible stolen goods at school. While he no doubt also had his sweet side, his twitter handle was “No_Limit_Nigga” filled with gangsta nonsense, and the only racial slurs ever uttered in the case were said by Trayvon and not Zimmerman.

That's funny, by how media depicted him it made him look like a saint who could never hurt anyone... The case is closed, justice was made, end of story.

 

[Evo]

Half of the jury believed that Zimmerman was guilty, but ultimately resigned to aquit him due to the wording of the law.

As they began deliberating in George Zimmerman’s murder trial, three of the six jurors wanted to acquit him while the other three wanted to convict him of either murder or manslaughter, one of the jurors said.

The six-woman jury ultimately voted to acquit Zimmerman in the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/zimmerman-juror-says-sanford-detective-made-big-impression-planning-to-write-a-book/2013/07/15/ce4afbb2-edb1-11e2-bb32-725c8351a69e_story.html

Also, four other members of the jury wanted it known that they did not agree with the juror that sided with Zimmerman in an interview the other day.

Four of the jurors in George Zimmerman's murder trial distanced themselves late Tuesday from statements that another juror made in a televised interview.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/17/zimmerman-jurors-request-privacy-in-statement/#ixzz2ZK8Kb3qQ

 

[OmCheeto]

It appeared that the attackers were loosely organised through social media, including some internet messages urging people to gather in Hollywood ``to riot,'' Valois said.

I haven't followed this case at all, as it appeared to be trivial, from my perspective.

I once saw a movie called "Mindwalk", where one of the lead characters described how 35,000 children, under the age of 5, die, every day, from starvation or disease. That was a big number, and that was many years ago. My response, to every media death since then, is based on that number.

It is tragic that Trayvon was killed that night, and I will never have words to comfort his parents, but the entire ensuing circus has struck me as a first world media/social sickness.

Kill your flat screens... Please.

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gPjGuC6CFQ​

Good night Trayvon.

I will come visit you very soon, and we will dance.

 

[pftest]

Heres how i look at the situation:

A standup guy (Zimmerman) is trying to protect a neighbourhood, he sees a suspicious looking individual (Martin), follows him and then approaches him. Martin viciously attacks him and Zimmerman defends himself with his gun. I think if Martin were still alive, he should be put in jail.

 

[BobG]

Heres how i look at the situation:

A standup guy (Zimmerman) is trying to protect a neighbourhood, he sees a suspicious looking individual (Martin), follows him and then approaches him. Martin viciously attacks him and Zimmerman defends himself with his gun. I think if Martin were still alive, he should be put in jail.

The problem with this is that there is no proof that Martin viciously attacked him. There's only proof that Martin was winning the fight once it started.

Of course, there's also no proof Zimmerman viciously attacked Martin, either; hence the "not guilty" verdict.

Plus, I have a small problem with a stand up guy with no professional training playing policeman in a residential neighborhood with a loaded gun. There's a difference between being attacked while minding your own business and being attacked because you intentionally put yourself into potentially dangerous situations that you have neither the training nor the authority to handle. I don't feel Zimmerman committed a crime, but I do feel Zimmerman acted irresponsibly.

 

[Evo]

The problem with this is that there is no proof that Martin viciously attacked him. There's only proof that Martin was winning the fight once it started.

Actually, there is no proof of Martin winning either, IMO. For all we know, Zimmerman had his gun out already, either hoping to keep an upper hand when he confronted Martin, or to just scare him. This could be why the two began struggling (per an eye witness ) who then heard a man screaming for help, (possibly Martin since George had a gun), and when Martin popped him in the nose the one time, Zimmerman panicked and shot, IMO. Zimmerman said that Martin tried to grab the gun from him. I've already posted links to these. The thing is, the only person alive that knows is Zimmerman. No one heard Zimmerman say "stop or I'll shoot" either, IIRC. If he had, Martin might have backed away and run again, and Zimmerman upset about getting punched in the nose a second time might not be willing to go after him again. IMO.

 

[russ_watters]

Actually, there is no proof of Martin winning either, IMO.

You mean besides the blood, broken nose and eyewitnesses who said martin was on top, right...?

 

[Evo]

You mean besides the blood, broken nose and eyewitnesses who said martin was on top, right...?

CBS/AP - A Jacksonville medical examiner on Tuesday testified that George Zimmerman had "insignificant" injuries that didn't appear to result from multiple impacts against concrete.

"The individual who examined him and treated Mr. Zimmerman told him sutures were not required," Rao said. "She put a BandAid on each of them, and that was the extent of the treatment."

Answering questions from prosecutors, Rao said she believed the injuries were too minor to be consistent with repeated slamming on a sidewalk.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57592031-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-jacksonville-medical-examiner-says-zimmermans-injuries-from-altercation-were-insignificant/

Good was the first person to testify that he thought he saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, and that it was Zimmerman who may have been crying out for help from underneath. His testimony contradicts witness Selma Mora, now a Miami resident, who testified Thursday that she thought she saw Zimmerman on top during the scuffle.

Good stopped short, however, of saying that he saw the person on top throwing punches or slamming the other man’s head on the sidewalk, as Zimmerman contends Trayvon did to him.

Seems Good corroborates Rao's expert testimony that Zimmerman was not repeatedly beaten. Her testimony is that his injuries indicate one blow to the nose.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/06/28/3475059/state-presses-on-in-george-zimmerman.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Evo]

Can we just call it quits yet? Zimmerman was acquitted. Ok, there is conflicting eyewitness testimony. An eye witness for the defense says Martin was on top but Zimmerman was not being attacked. The jury was split, half felt that he was guilty of either 2nd degree murder or manslaughter, but finally conceded to acquit based on technical wording of the law. Forensic experts and photos show very minor injuries to Zimmmerman that look like he received one punch to the nose that perhaps knocked him backwards. I have already posted the articles and testimony.

What is all of the continuing hate against a dead child supposed to accomplish? Zimmerman was arrested for both domestic abuse and attacking a police officer, he's no angel, (for those intent to make Travon out to be a bad kid). He wasn't the best, but neither was the self appointed armed vigilante. Who went after him against the neighborhood watch rules and the advice of police dispatch.

Enough?

 

[Astronuc]

Enough?

Enough.