Is Overpopulation an Important Issue? Examining Solutions

[WhoWee]

yes, that is a big part of it, and Haiti is an interesting case. because the other side of the island is the Dominican Republic, and they aren't the basket case that Haiti is. are these people not closely related? what could be the difference? it certainly must be culture and politics. so we've got to find a way to breach that sensitive topic of cultural diversity and just outright state that some cultures provide superior outcomes compared to others.

not that all of us can't improve, of course. for example, much of Cuba's poverty has been a direct result of us kicking the **** out of them with sanctions.

A dependence on external support restricts self sufficiency - doesn't it? What did Russia do to improve the economy of Cuba - did they build finance a tourist industry (as the US Black Caucus wanted to do) or perhaps assist them in developing a manufacturing base? Cuba's economy seemed to stop growing when the US investors were chased away - when Castro took control. At some point direct investment into productive and competitive assets is required.

 

[Proton Soup]

A dependence on external support restricts self sufficiency - doesn't it? What did Russia do to improve the economy of Cuba - did they build finance a tourist industry (as the US Black Caucus wanted to do) or perhaps assist them in developing a manufacturing base? Cuba's economy seemed to stop growing when the US investors were chased away - when Castro took control. At some point direct investment into productive and competitive assets is required.

self-sufficiency is not a very good argument. no one is self-sufficient on a small enough scale.

yes, cuba subsisted for a long time on the soviets paying them a premium for things like sugar. which could work OK until the soviets had money problems of their own and couldn't support them. and no, it's not like cuba chose the best economic system, but still much of the problem for them was indeed our economic warfare against them. they actually have some resorts now, and europeans can visit, but not we americans. even venezuela's president seems to have some trust in their medical system (and probably much more privacy there).

cuba does have problems, but it's not all internal.

 

[mheslep]

Interesting time history of fertility rates, all countries 1960 to now, courtesy Google's PDE. Some large countries selected to track. I'd thought China's rate would have dropped the most over time but it appears Mexico and S. Korea dropped faster.

Hit the play button.
http://www.google.com/publicdata/ex...R&ifdim=country&pit=1250654400000&hl=en&dl=en

 

[Physics-Learner]

i tend to be an isolationist. fix my own country, and let others fix their countries. curtailing our growth does not help when our politicians entice immigration.

do not allow immigration and keep up the economy - a very easy solution to overpopulation.

 

[WhoWee]

i tend to be an isolationist. fix my own country, and let others fix their countries. curtailing our growth does not help when our politicians entice immigration.

do not allow immigration and keep up the economy - a very easy solution to overpopulation.

I'm not sure the President of the US agrees with your position.
http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/Oba...r/2011/08/19/id/408008?s=al&promo_code=CE10-1

"Ariz. Gov. Jan Brewer: Obama Acts Like He's Above Law on Immigration"

 

[Physics-Learner]

we have been encouraging immigration way before obama, so that can't be blamed totally on him. the wealthy are intentionally doing what they can to have its population dependent on them.

we, the people, really need to start taking control back. as i understand it, this is the main objective of the tea party.

 

[WhoWee]

we have been encouraging immigration way before obama, so that can't be blamed totally on him. the wealthy are intentionally doing what they can to have its population dependent on them.

we, the people, really need to start taking control back. as i understand it, this is the main objective of the tea party.

This isn't about "blame" - this is a current issue.

 

[OmCheeto]

we have been encouraging immigration way before obama, so that can't be blamed totally on him. the wealthy are intentionally doing what they can to have its population dependent on them.

we, the people, really need to start taking control back. as i understand it, this is the main objective of the tea party.

I thought the Koch brothers were funding the Tea Party?

Anyways, over population is a serious, localized problem. How many boat loads of Americans do you see trying to escape to Haiti, or boat loads of Italians trying to escape to Tunisia, or Brits escaping to Pakistan?

I'm afraid my solution to the problem might seem a bit too eugenic to most people, so I'll keep it to myself.

 

[WhoWee]

I thought the Koch brothers were funding the Tea Party?

Did you read that in one of these threads?

 

[OmCheeto]

Did you read that in one of these threads?

I overheard it somewhere. Don't remember where.

Is US News a reliable source?

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...-funding-koch-brothers-emerge-from-anonymity"
February 2, 2011
...
But it has now come out how involved they have been in funding Tea Party groups, Americans for Prosperity, FreedomWorks, and Citizens for a Sound Economy ($12 million).
...

Or has this been debunked?

Anyways, I thought Physics-Learner's post was a bit dichotomous, which was why I posted my comment, and also why I tried bring us back on topic, which I know will be very hard, since probably everything will be going off topic for the next 15 months.

 

[Evo]

Anyways, I thought Physics-Learner's post was a bit dichotomous, which was why I posted my comment, and also why I tried bring us back on topic, which I know will be very hard, since probably everything will be going off topic for the next 15 months.

I believe some people are going to try to hijack every thread to make it about the upcoming election. Stand by for some serious new rules in the next month or two.

 

[OmCheeto]

I believe some people are going to try to hijack every thread to make it about the upcoming election. Stand by for some serious new rules in the next month or two.

I can only imagine the volumetric increase in the; "How dare this forum infringe on my right to free speech!" posts.

I of course, will be cheering on my beloved Mentors.

But back to the topic for a moment. Physics-Learner's post:

i tend to be an isolationist. fix my own country, and let others fix their countries. curtailing our growth does not help when our politicians entice immigration.

do not allow immigration and keep up the economy - a very easy solution to overpopulation.

somewhat mirrors my comment:

...
Anyways, over population is a serious, localized problem. How many boat loads of Americans do you see trying to escape to Haiti, or boat loads of Italians trying to escape to Tunisia, or Brits escaping to Pakistan?
...

I haven't run the numbers, but I'd guess America is probably 99% immigrantly populated, and 100% if you go back about 35,000 or so years. I consider myself very lucky to occupy the last habitable, and un-overpopulated places on earth, and would be very sad to see it fill up.

Perhaps my eugenic solution could be ixnayed, if we could just show people, over the internet, all over the world, what life would/could be like if there were not so many of us.

ps. I have to leave now and go to the river. There is a deserted island with my name written all over it.

pps. My eugenics idea was to offer every male on the planet 2 months wages(tax free! Yo! Tea Partiers! I said tax free!) to get a vasectomy. Problem solved. Economics rules!

ppps. I'd be first in line. I am so broke.

 

[Proton Soup]

so... are the Koch Brothers big fans of Ron Paul?

 

[Char. Limit]

I do feel that overpopulation is a global problem (that is, it affects the entire globe), but we can give local solutions. My personal favorite: mandatory birth control to everyone under 21.

 

[OmCheeto]

I do feel that overpopulation is a global problem (that is, it affects the entire globe), but we can give local solutions. My personal favorite: mandatory birth control to everyone under 21.

Mandatory!?

Why you little fascist, communist, Marxist, do-it-my-way-or-the-highway, self centered...

umm...

When did we become so open minded, that we let our brains fall out?...


http://gresham.katu.com/news/news/4...-challenged-mother-fighting-heroin-addiction"

My other solution? Mandatory sterilization for heroin addicts.

oh wait. I just read the end of the story:

Kilburn and Gibson said they are praying that their 2-day-old son survives. Also, we did ask the boy's father if he had ever thought about using birth control and he responded "I'm getting fixed."

Two months salary about 10 years ago would have solved this problem...

Money talks... Heroin addicts are human...

ps. Char, Please marry your girlfriend and have children. Otherwise, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/" rules.

pps. Dear Jesus, please put your hands on all the tummys and scrots of idiots, crack hoes, and heroin addicts, such that they not make more devil babies.

 

[Char. Limit]

Mandatory!?

Why you little fascist, communist, Marxist, do-it-my-way-or-the-highway, self centered...

umm...

When did we become so open minded, that we let our brains fall out?...

You don't want mandatory birth control for teenagers? Then you must WANT teenage mothers out in the street! Because clearly you couldn't just, you know, disagree with my methods or something.

http://gresham.katu.com/news/news/4...-challenged-mother-fighting-heroin-addiction"

My other solution? Mandatory sterilization for heroin addicts.

oh wait. I just read the end of the story:
Two months salary about 10 years ago would have solved this problem...

Money talks... Heroin addicts are human...

Yeah, I'd say that could be a good idea... give me a few minutes to figure out how to make it Constitutional.

ps. Char, Please marry your girlfriend and have children. Otherwise, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/" rules.

pps. Dear Jesus, please put your hands on all the tummys and scrots of idiots, crack hoes, and heroin addicts, such that they not make more devil babies.

lol, I love that movie. And don't worry, we'll do our part.

 

[OmCheeto]

Jesus apparently was on a party line, and misheard my prayer...

The latest; "We're #1", facebook friend post:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/08/19/oversexed-oregon-top-10-most-promiscuous-u-s-cities/?hpt=hp_t2"

Congratulations, people of Portland! (Or, if you're of a super-strict moral fiber, then shame on you, people of Portland!)

Dating site OkCupid has tapped into their data to determine which cities across the U.S. have the most promiscuous residents. By analyzing how many people have profiles with "Casual Sex" marked as a type of relationship they're looking for and then tallying where those users live, OkCupid has found the cities with the highest percentage of bed-hoppers.

Thank god we're all gay out here on the commie coast.

Oh wait. That was solution #2.

I got that idea from China, when they started killing all the girl babies.



And I'm serious. That is really sad. It really does make me want to cry when I hear of such things. "It's a girl. Kill it. I want a boy."

 

[Evo]

And I'm serious. That is really sad. It really does make me want to cry when I hear of such things. "It's a girl. Kill it. I want a boy."

They also killed baby girls in Ancient Rome. The female babies were taken to a local dump and left to die.

 

[OmCheeto]

They also killed baby girls in Ancient Rome. The female babies were taken to a local dump and left to die.

I did not need to know that.

 

[Evo]

I did not need to know that.

It's probably something many people are unaware of, or how widespread, and the high numbers of infant deaths there were in history as a way of not exceeding the number they could feed and care for, for social status, or appease the gods, etc...

Warning. There are some very disturbing practices mentioned, so read at your own risk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide

 

[Physics-Learner]

i would guess that because they could not be warriors, they were not considered as valuable.

 

[Physics-Learner]

I believe some people are going to try to hijack every thread to make it about the upcoming election. Stand by for some serious new rules in the next month or two.

i hope you weren't insinuating that i was hijacking this thread due to upcoming elections ?

 

[Evo]

i hope you weren't insinuating that i was hijacking this thread due to upcoming elections ?

Not you. But if you start, I'll come after you. :tongue:

 

[Physics-Learner]

thank you.

 

[Physics-Learner]

as an aside, i know most every one of my answers to various problems here on the political forum is reducing govt. but this is only because it helps solve just about every problem that we have.

the govt is wholly responsible for over-population in our country. and look what is happening in europe. in almost every european country, native birth rates are less than 1 per person. in other words, the native population is actually decreasing.

but muslims are coming in by the droves. supposedly by 2050, europe will be mostly muslim. immigration policies are established by govts.

as i stated above, there is a way to stop the virus from entering your country - don't allow immigration. by doing this, each country has to solve their own procreation problems.

but then no country can mess up anything but their own country. so the virus is at least contained within a country. otherwise, we just let it spread worldwide.

 

[MarcoD]

as an aside, i know most every one of my answers to various problems here on the political forum is reducing govt. but this is only because it helps solve just about every problem that we have.

the govt is wholly responsible for over-population in our country. and look what is happening in europe. in almost every european country, native birth rates are less than 1 per person. in other words, the native population is actually decreasing.

In Europe, you have large governments and low birth rates, low teenage pregnancies, low drug addiction. If there would be any relation, shouldn't you increase the size of the government?

but muslims are coming in by the droves. supposedly by 2050, europe will be mostly muslim. immigration policies are established by govts.

I think immigration laws should be strict too. There's too much tension on the public now. But I don't blame immigrants for anything. They worked hard, and often did very dirty jobs, to give us our wealth.

as i stated above, there is a way to stop the virus from entering your country - don't allow immigration. by doing this, each country has to solve their own procreation problems.

Tss. Virus? That's a Godwin.

In the Netherlands in the fifties, protestants threatened to leave for the US since the catholic virus was spreading since they 'breed' more, they were also very afraid that catholics would become the majority.

Most muslims in Europe are secular. There's no reason to believe in religious tensions except for the occasional odd-ball. We did it ourselves.

but then no country can mess up anything but their own country. so the virus is at least contained within a country. otherwise, we just let it spread worldwide.

I am more worried about the virus called 'stupidity,' than anything else.

 

[Physics-Learner]

you can label the virus "stupidity" if you like. i labeled it as "not being able to control one's procreation".

native europeans and americans have controlled their procreation.

most other peoples have not. when those other peoples come into countries, they spread that virus.

you mistakenly assumed i was talking about religious tensions.

however, people with very different lifestyles have different desires, etc. don't be naive enough to think that things won't change when a minority group becomes a majority group.

look what happened to our native indians when we europeans came over. i can't do anything about the past. but don't think the indians were thrilled to see us europeans come over, become a majority, and completely change their lives.

 

[Physics-Learner]

if you like europe and its oppressive, socialistic govts, you do have the choice of moving there.

i prefer to go back to the roots of our country, where people felt responsible for their own actions, and their own destinies.

 

[OmCheeto]

I am more worried about the virus called 'stupidity,' than anything else.

Agreed. That's why no matter how many times my county asks me to pay more taxes for schools, I vote yes.

Has anyone mentioned the following article yet?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/special_report/1999/06/99/world_population/382980.stm"
Thursday, 1 July, 1999
...
Dr Norman Myers ... says there are already people in the Pentagon in Washington who are wondering whether they should shift spending from arms to things like family planning in the developing world or soil conservation or stopping ****** *******.
...



At the UN conference on population in Cairo five years ago western nations did agree a large increase in funding for family planning in developing countries.
...
But they have only delivered around half what they promised.

The chief culprit is the United States government, which has been forced by pressure from evangelical Christians and Catholic bishops to actually reduce funds for family planning.

A tad old, but I've been hearing about the population explosion since I was a teen. So I think everything in the 12 year old article is still true.

As far as I can tell, the recent genocides are merely really really really really late term abortions. And they won't stop, until everyone understands this, and stops having so many freakin' babies!

IMHO of course.

Om's Sunday bible interpretation:
It is written: Genesis 35:11 "be fruitful and multiply".
We have been fruitful, and have multiplied. Mission Accomplished!
What is not written; "Breed like rats until you are crawling over each other, and killing each other for scraps of land and food."

 

[Proton Soup]

Agreed. That's why no matter how many times my county asks me to pay more taxes for schools, I vote yes.

Has anyone mentioned the following article yet?



A tad old, but I've been hearing about the population explosion since I was a teen. So I think everything in the 12 year old article is still true.
...

IMHO of course.

...

wars do tend to be about resources. rwanda also had a kind of ethnic tension. there were two tribes, the hutus and the tutsis. the tutsis were the more educated, less populous, more organized ruling class that ran things and had a better standard of living. so eventually, a large group of impoverished hutus rose up and slaughtered the tutsis with little more than cheap machetes.

so keep in mind that a stable society needs to have some means for social equity and advancement among the underclass. and probably your only chance of sending people back to their relatives to educate them on the importance of keeping birth rates down.

 

[Evo]

Well I don't think that such an idea exists. Yes, there are a lot of people but if we look at the amount of land, over population would just be some waste. I mean, there is a feeling that there is some problem with population because is not shared properly. Of course this is taken in consideration with only the amount of land livable and not those which would be part of slopes. And until you can support your own, this should not be an issue.

What? Can you try again, most of this doesn't make sense.

 

[Evo]

it is going to increase day by day

Last time I looked recently, world population was increasing by 93 million a year.

 

[MarcoD]

As far as I can tell, the recent genocides are merely really really really really late term abortions. And they won't stop, until everyone understands this, and stops having so many freakin' babies!

A bit off-topic, but I agree with your sentiment. I always get annoyed by economists which explain to the general public that growth of our population is a good thing since we need it for the economy and then all numbers become bigger.

The numbers become bigger? Who cares?

I have the general feeling that we should decrease our population with 33%. That would, in general, give everyone 50% more property, and decrease sociological tensions all around.

The answer is less, not more.

(Someone should once figure out what the optimal number of persons per habitable square kilometer is.)

 

[Evo]

(Someone should once figure out what the optimal number of persons per habitable square kilometer is.)

That would vary according to proximity to fresh water for drinking, food supplies, jobs, transportation, housing, medical facilities, etc...

 

[MarcoD]

That would vary according to proximity to fresh water for drinking, food supplies, jobs, transportation, housing, medical facilities, etc...

Personally, I am scared of heights, so apart from ecological sustainability my rather dumbed-down belief is that everything starts falling apart when you start stuffing people in 'cages' which you then stack into skyscrapers.