Overcome Feeling Discouraged in Math

[Chrono]

I was wondering if any of you were ever discouraged in math. I mean, you're sitting there in lecture and just feel like you're never going to get it. I haven't really had that happen, but I think it might sometime. How could you overcome that?

 

[Math Is Hard]

I've been there, for sure! I recommend finding a good tutor, and asking lots of questions on this board. The weird thing is - sometimes math gets easier. I mean, in my case, anyway, I found calculus 2 to be WAY easier than my pre-calc or calc 1 class. (A lot of it has to do with the teacher.)
Also, don't be afraid to ask questions in class. Sometimes you might think it's embarrassing, but actually everyone in the room turns out to be relieved you asked, because thay were wondering the same thing!

 

[Chrono]

The weird thing is - sometimes math gets easier.

I've definitely had that happen. I've gotten A's in Calculus I and II, but back in high school when I took Algebra I, I nearly failed it. It wasn't until I got into college when I found out I was pretty good at it.

 

[mathwonk]

usually a nice sandwich helps, or a sunrise. i.e. tomorrow everything looks different as little orphan annie said so well.

but truthfully, usually when i am discouraged at work i notice i have not eaten lately and am tired. i.e. it usually happens at the same time of day. so i just wait until the next day when i feel better.

but more globally i have just gotten used to the fact that lots of people are smarter than me. so what? I still enjoy learning at my own speed, and occasionally I creep up on them with my little "never give up" tortoise approach.

I also work at not buying into the smart alecky attitude that used to pervade many of the university settings I found myself in as a young man, where people were often made to feel ashamed of asking questions. (Maybe that is why you are asking that question here, as this site is a place where all questions seem welcome.)

by the way if you still have not had it happen yet that you feel you are never going to get it you are way smarter than me.

In regard to the advice to ask questions, a friend once paid me what he meant as a compliment, that the reason i had become a mathematician and others had not, was i was not afraid to ask stupid questions!

 

[Math Is Hard]

I've definitely had that happen. I've gotten A's in Calculus I and II, but back in high school when I took Algebra I, I nearly failed it. It wasn't until I got into college when I found out I was pretty good at it.

It's funny that way. But you don't have anything to worry about. You're probably helping all the rest of the students with math concepts. That's actually a good way of testing if you really understand a concept - see if you can explain it to someone else.

 

[matt grime]

frequently i find myself wondering how you're supposed to do something in maths. a break always helps. I had a conjectur i couldn't prove for weeks, went away did something else for six months and when i came back to it the answer seemed relatively obvious. a bit extreme perhaps, but it happens to most all of us.

 

[Chrono]

It's funny that way. But you don't have anything to worry about. You're probably helping all the rest of the students with math concepts. That's actually a good way of testing if you really understand a concept - see if you can explain it to someone else.

I actually do help a couple of people in class who ask me about something. I have 13 and 14 year old girls coming to me to help them with their algebra. It feels good knowing that they want to come to me for help.

by the way if you still have not had it happen yet that you feel you are never going to get it you are way smarter than me.

Don't worry, I've had it happen more times than I care to remember. It always seems to work out in the end, though.

 

[mathwonk]

The point is that learning and doing math is not a contest, but a lifelong shared enterprise, and it can be very enjoyable, as is teaching it.

 

[JasonRox]

If someone "smarter" than you is being an idiot around you, tell him you have a girlfriend. ;)

 

[Chrono]

If someone "smarter" than you is being an idiot around you, tell him you have a girlfriend. ;)

Like they'll believe that of me.

 

[singleton]

I was wondering if any of you were ever discouraged in math. I mean, you're sitting there in lecture and just feel like you're never going to get it. I haven't really had that happen, but I think it might sometime. How could you overcome that?

Just remember that everyone learns in different ways. I'll be honest, in high school I failed math a few times and ended up dropping out (stupid mistake). I thought I was terrible at math.

Back at the end of May I began a correspondence Calculus course that is rated Grade 13 for Ontario. While it is nothing compared to university math for sure, I still found it odd that I maintain a 98.9% (I write my exam in 3 weeks!) in the course while I failed "lower" math in high school (and I'm teaching it to myself mind you--no teachers or help available other than these great forum members!)

In college (I'm taking Computer Programming and Analysis at an Ontario college) I always find it tough to follow lectures. I can only imagine math lectures would be that much harder to follow (for my personal learning style that is).

Heck, when I picked up the Calculus books (four books each 0.75-1 inch thick) for my correspondence course I quickly skipped through the books and was sure I'd fail being away from math for 5+ years (and when I last encountered it 5 years ago, I was horribly failing).

The trick is to never get intimidated, bringing yourself to read the text is half the battle. Read and re-read over and over until you truly understand things. I find that helps me :)

Anyhow this is getting long, just remember that the worst failure is not trying and like the good advice I've heard here--"What are you worried about, at most your mistakes will kill but a few trees (paper)".

Sometimes just getting outside, taking a deep breath of cold fresh autumn air at night and going for a walk, thinking about your future and so forth is enough to clear the carbon buildup.

 

[Chrono]

Just remember that everyone learns in different ways. I'll be honest, in high school I failed math a few times and ended up dropping out (stupid mistake). I thought I was terrible at math.

Back at the end of May I began a correspondence Calculus course that is rated Grade 13 for Ontario. While it is nothing compared to university math for sure, I still found it odd that I maintain a 98.9% (I write my exam in 3 weeks!) in the course while I failed "lower" math in high school (and I'm teaching it to myself mind you--no teachers or help available other than these great forum members!)

In college (I'm taking Computer Programming and Analysis at an Ontario college) I always find it tough to follow lectures. I can only imagine math lectures would be that much harder to follow (for my personal learning style that is).

This is exactly what I was getting at. Great reply! Kind of inspirational, I must say.

 

[JasonRox]

Getting discouraged is the fun part isn't it?

After you pull through, it feels great, and the next thing you know, you know double the stuff you knew before. Maybe it's because you know so much stuff and you are just slowly plugging all the wires together, which gives you a nice rounded understanding of the material.

I think getting discourage and pulling through is what makes math so much fun because it is such a challenge.

 

[Theelectricchild]

The key is you have to do well on every exam you take.

 

[Pyrrhus]

The key is you have to do well on every exam you take.

No, They key is to take an active interest on what you're being taught, because if you care about what Calculus, Physics, Chemistry or whatever, you'll always want to learn more!.

 

[JasonRox]

No, They key is to take an active interest on what you're being taught, because if you care about what Calculus, Physics, Chemistry or whatever, you'll always want to learn more!.

Right! Grades don't matter.

I'd rather write a proof of something I haven't done before on the back of the exam pages.

Put it this way:

You know when you understand material, and when you do know you understand the material, you don't need 100% on an exam to tell you that.

 

[Tide]

Are we confusing discouragement and frustration? Personally, I've never been discouraged by math though some problems have been rather frustrating! Back in school and on those occasions when I didn't fully understand some concept or principle the prof was discussing it only served to strengthen my resolve to figure it out myself.

 

[Pyrrhus]

Are we confusing discouragement and frustration? Personally, I've never been discouraged by math though some problems have been rather frustrating! Back in school and on those occasions when I didn't fully understand some concept or principle the prof was discussing it only served to strengthened my resolve to figure it out myself.

Exactly what i meant, except most students don't care if they didn't understand it properly and go on, if you have an active interest you will definately care, and then the exams won't look as hard as they seem to.

 

[Chrono]

Are we confusing discouragement and frustration? Personally, I've never been discouraged by math though some problems have been rather frustrating! Back in school and on those occasions when I didn't fully understand some concept or principle the prof was discussing it only served to strengthen my resolve to figure it out myself.

You may be right. It probably is frustration that I've often felt. I kind of do the same that you do, try to figure it out myself. Or, at least get another explination or point of view on the subject he was lecturing on.

 

[Theelectricchild]

You guys are right, grades arent the only thing that matter I suppose.

 

[bfd]

I was wondering if any of you were ever discouraged in math. I mean, you're sitting there in lecture and just feel like you're never going to get it. I haven't really had that happen, but I think it might sometime. How could you overcome that?

To answer your first question, yes. Many times. I've found that most of my fustration occurred as a result of a combination of poor study habits, unrealistic view of math itself, and poor teachers. Of course it took me some time to realize all this.

To combat some of this fustration I just learned to study smarter. I began to thoroughly read my textbooks. I talked with other students and formed study groups. I sought help before my grade had a chance to flop. The point being is to not give up. Exhaust every feasible possiblity in order to gain that understanding you need. I think with time and effort you'll gain a deeper appreciation and love for the subject. I know I did. And that, to me anyway, is priceless.

 

[Chrono]

unrealistic view of math itself

And what view was that?

 

[danitaber]

As far as feeling that I'd never understand Mathematics, No, I've never had that feeling. I have been terrified of it,. though.

I've been so afraid that I only thought I knew it that I couldn't do my homework, or wouldn't answer a question.

But, no, I've never been unable to understand something. Either I'm blocked because I didn't pay enough attention or I'm blocked because I'm scared. It's always temporary.

If one is willing to be humble and try, one can work through anything.

 

[matt grime]

"I've never been unable to understand something"

you're either a genius or not doing very difficult maths then.

 

[danitaber]

"I've never been unable to understand something"

you're either a genius or not doing very difficult maths then.

I think you either misinterpreted my post or are jealous
All I'm saying is that given time, effort, and determination, there isn't anything one can't understand (aside from religious issues). It's the fear of not understanding that does the damage.

Say you have a very nasty differential equation on an exam, and you don't know how to solve it, but your professor is not the type to create trick questions. What do you do? You exhaust every method until you find the right one, or the right combination, or your time is up and the answer occurrs to you as you walk out the door.

Say you're in your complex analysis class and everything your professor says goes right over your head. What do you do? You open your textbook, you google your chapter, you go to the library, you visit your professor (or TA, depending on size of school) during office hours and you don't let him/her leave you until you're satisfied as to *why* you're doing this, *how* you're doing this, and *when* you should do this in the future. The point is you hit everyone and everything like a freight train until you "get it". And if you still don't "get it", you sleep on it and in the morning, when your brain has had time to assimilate all of the new data, it's easier. Then you go explain it to your classmates because they've been feeling the same way.

This is what I've found. Maybe it doesn't work for everybody. But I've found, in my experience, that discouragement is temporary and is grounded more in fear than in any inability. I don't believe many people are *unable* to learn things. Some are, but not many. Could it hurt to try this method? No.

I don't know, maybe I am a genius. In which case disregard all of this because it won't apply to "normal" people. Certainly I have been through difficult mathematics courses.

Just trying to offer a different perspective on discouragement and frustration that may help someone faced with it. Kind of, "Don't be discouraged, you can do it! Let your frustration work *for* you" sort of thing. I'm sorry if this kind of pep-talk is offensive; I didn't intend it to be.

Best wishes.

 

[bfd]

And what view was that?

Well I should have worded it better. I should have said that I had many misconceptions about math.

 

[Chrono]

Say you're in your complex analysis class and everything your professor says goes right over your head. What do you do? You open your textbook, you google your chapter, you go to the library, you visit your professor (or TA, depending on size of school) during office hours and you don't let him/her leave you until you're satisfied as to *why* you're doing this, *how* you're doing this, and *when* you should do this in the future. The point is you hit everyone and everything like a freight train until you "get it". And if you still don't "get it", you sleep on it and in the morning, when your brain has had time to assimilate all of the new data, it's easier. Then you go explain it to your classmates because they've been feeling the same way.

I see what you're saying now. Just keep working at it until the light bulb lights up. I think this can keep me from being frustrated.

 

[Chrono]

Well I should have worded it better. I should have said that I had many misconceptions about math.

I'm curious as to what the misconceptions were.

 

[mathwonk]

There are many levels of frustration and potential discouragement in math, and life. I have definitely been discouraged in math, both at lack of success in solving problems and by comparing myself to others more successful or smarter.

After many years, I began to stop comparing myself to others, and tried more and more to just enjoy the subject. I am still learning this attitude. I think danitaber has a good approach. As to people who have never been discouraged, I am puzzled. Maybe they have a secret that I lack. But I have always found that a new day brings new enthusiasm. There is a good reason for having a weekend. People come back renewed and having forgotten the frustrations of last week.

My watchword for years was simply:
never give up,
never give up,
never give up.

I say now, try to focus on the joy of the subject, not on the pride of excelling someone else.

 

[matt grime]

I think you either misinterpreted my post or are jealous
All I'm saying is that given time, effort, and determination, there isn't anything one can't understand (aside from religious issues). It's the fear of not understanding that does the damage..

Hmm, yep, jealous, sparky, that's it.
Fear is an important issue, however the amount of time required to learn something is in itself something a lot of people perceive as a problem. They almost expect to carry on learning at the rate they did at high school (with the American meanings of phrases like that) or even as freshman. That cannot happen, especially when one goes beyond learning a method and application to what I am biased towards calling real maths (ie with proof).

 

[mathwonk]

the wisdom i see emerging here is that one should try not to let genuine frustration, at not solving a particular problem or whatever, turn into discouragement, which is a loss of motivation to continue to try ones best.

 

[Chrono]

They almost expect to carry on learning at the rate they did at high school (with the American meanings of phrases like that) or even as freshman. That cannot happen, especially when one goes beyond learning a method and application to what I am biased towards calling real maths (ie with proof).

I've learned that, but it was a good thing I did. Y'all probably don't remember, but I nearly failed algebra in high school. When I got into college I made nothing less than a B in math. Now I'm starting to consider going for my Masters in it. I now think I'm good at math and that's one of the best things that's happened to me.

 

[Sweet & Intellectual]

I get stuck all the time, and my first instinct is to give up and go on to the next one, but then I just look at it and talk to it. Tell it's a big bad problem and I can break it down into parts

Getting a tutor is helpful, but I typically only get stuck when I am home alone with nobody to help. Go figure?

I just take it in steps-- go back to the book, look at notes and examples, and before I give up on it, I write questions down, make sure I can't answer them on my own -- and email my instructor.

 

[Parth Dave]

One thing that I find really helps is reading ahead. This is especially true for physics, if you have a lecture, find out what its about beforehand, and read about it. It's not too bad understanding if you have some basic understanding of what you are taught.

Oh and for problems, the best thing you can do is take time. First of all, the more problems you do, the better you will be at them. Secondly, if you find a problem that is really killing you, than leave it. Just come back to it later when your mind has had time to refresh and relax. Sometimes you could just be making the smallest stupidest mistake without realizing it.

 

[Theelectricchild]

but we are all forgetting physics is a much harder subject than math...

 

[JasonRox]

but we are all forgetting physics is a much harder subject than math...

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Math is much farther ahead than physics, and for all we know the final theory might already be in our hands.

 

[mathwonk]

I know very little about physics, but as I recall from freshman year in college, physics was more difficult for me personally because the assumptions were not clearly stated in advance. I.e. in a physics problem one was expected to make reasonable assumptions that rendered the problem doable, but which had not been stated in the problem (for example [false] assumptions such as "space is homogeneous"). In math that kind of thing is never done: all assumptions are clearly stated. To me this gave physics problem solutions a feeling of: "well that's cheating, they never said you could assume that!" But for someone with that more flexible turn of mind, these problems were more doable. So for some people physics is harder and for other people math is harder. Certainly a lot of physicists come to mathematicians for technical help, and many mathematicians these days are looking to physics for inspiration. As for comparing the subjects globally, what does that mean? I.e. there are math problems (such as Riemann's hypothesis), that no one alive can do, nor has anyone been able to do for over 100 years. So what does it mean to say physics is harder? Math and physics enrich each other, and both offer extremely intractable problems.

One may say physics is more free wheeling, with more speculation and perhaps more imagination. In math on the other hand, the standards of precision and accuracy are higher, in that results must be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt. Thus in physics the results and assumptions of prior ages are sometimes discarded by new generations as flawed theories, whereas in math the results even of the ancient Greeks still stand as firmly as ever.

At professional meetings I have attended, physicists sometimes argue as to which theory is more plausible. Mathematicians never argue for long. They just read the proof.

 

[Chrono]

Math is much farther ahead than physics, and for all we know the final theory might already be in our hands.

We're not getting into that again, are we?

 

[Silverious]

I get that feeling once every week. If there's a physics problem or something I can't figure out, I feel like such a failure. But if I do figure something out on my own, it's the greatest feeling in the world. I guess it balances out. You just have to remember your self-worth, and if you do poorly in a subject, maybe that's not what you're meant to do?

 

[Sweet & Intellectual]

Well to me, I think they are both very difficult.
And I still need help with my math -- I tried asking in the homework help area with NO luck, so I just erased it. So if you're bored and you're good at math. Send me a message! "BubblyAngelica"

And yes, I'm desperate!

 

[splitendz]

desperate?

 

[JasonRox]

I get that feeling once every week. If there's a physics problem or something I can't figure out, I feel like such a failure. But if I do figure something out on my own, it's the greatest feeling in the world. I guess it balances out. You just have to remember your self-worth, and if you do poorly in a subject, maybe that's not what you're meant to do?

I don't know what you mean by "not what you're meant to do?".

I do agree with the "greatest" feeling in the world.

 

[Chrono]

You just have to remember your self-worth, and if you do poorly in a subject, maybe that's not what you're meant to do?

I always thought you just had to work harder in that subject.

 

[Theelectricchild]

You guys are right, math is harder than physics.

 

[singleton]

I don't know what you mean by "not what you're meant to do?".

I do agree with the "greatest" feeling in the world.

Check your PMs please ;)

 

[JasonRox]

Check your PMs please ;)

I didn't get any.

You must have sent it to the wrong person.

 

[Silverious]

I don't know what you mean by "not what you're meant to do?".

I'm just saying that if you have particular difficulty with math, you may want to switch to a field you may find more enjoyable and natural.

Of course that's a stupid thing to say on a calculus forum...

 

[JasonRox]

Of course that's a stupid thing to say on a calculus forum...

Very true.

You said that you should switch to something enjoyable, but what if you enjoy math. Regardless if it's difficult or not, as long as you enjoy it, continue what you're doing.

A student can be a Math major who loves math, but can barely pass Calculus 1 and still love it. The student should continue regardless of how many tries it takes because he/she likes it.

You can bring the reality check, but I can also bring in the reality check of the fact that life is going to suck if you don't stick with what you love.

 

[Chrono]

You said that you should switch to something enjoyable, but what if you enjoy math. Regardless if it's difficult or not, as long as you enjoy it, continue what you're doing.

A student can be a Math major who loves math, but can barely pass Calculus 1 and still love it. The student should continue regardless of how many tries it takes because he/she likes it.

You can bring the reality check, but I can also bring in the reality check of the fact that life is going to suck if you don't stick with what you love.

I couldn't agree more. I do enjoy math, but right now Calculus III is killing me. I plan on sticking with it.

 

[Theelectricchild]

You cannot integrate e to the x squareD!