Parametric Equations of Keplerian Orbit

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on deriving the constancy of angular momentum (L) from the parametric equations of a Keplerian orbit. Participants explore the relationship between angular momentum, torque, and the time-dependent nature of the radius (r) and velocity (v). There is confusion regarding the need to express velocity in terms of the parametric equations, with some contributors noting that the time derivative of L simplifies due to the parallel nature of certain vectors. The conversation highlights the importance of understanding the relationship between r, v, and the angles involved in the orbit. Ultimately, the discussion emphasizes that while L can be expressed in terms of r and m, the complexity arises from the changing parameters in elliptical orbits.
derravaragh
Messages
24
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


The figure illustrates a Keplerian orbit, with Cartesian coordinates (x,y) and
plane polar coordinates (r,φ).
F = -(G*M*m)/r^2
The parametric equations for the orbit:
r(ψ) = a ( 1 − e cos ψ)
tan(φ/2) = [(1+e)/(1-e)]^(1/2)* tan(ψ/2)
t(ψ) = (T/2π) ( ψ − e sin ψ)
where ψ is the independent, parametric variable; a, e, and T are constants.

Prove, directly from the parametric equations, that the angular momentum L is
constant. Express L in terms of the constants of the orbit (and any other relevant parameters).

Homework Equations


L = r x p
τnet = r x F

The Attempt at a Solution


I know that in order for L to be constant, its derivative (net torque) must be 0, but this isn't really getting me anywhere. I know torque = rxF and L = rmv, but quite frankly I can't seem to figure out how to do this using the parametric equations.
What I have done using the parametric equations is this:
L = m*r(ψ)*v(t) = m*(a*(1-e*cos(ψ)))*v(t)
From here I'm having a difficult time finding an expression for v(t). I tried using the relations
ω=((2*π)/T) and v = ω*r for the following work:
t(ψ) = (1/ω)*(ψ-esin(ψ))
==> ω = (ψ-esin(ψ))/t(ψ)
==> ω = (ψ-esin(ψ))/((T/(2π))*(ψ-esin(ψ))
==> ω = (2π/T) (this obviously backtracked)
==> v = r*(2π/T)

∴L = m*(a*(1-e*cos(ψ)))*(a*(1-e*cos(ψ)))*(2π/T)
or L = m*a2*(1-e*cos(ψ))2*(2π/T)

I'm pretty sure this isn't right because it isn't going to be constant for different r values. Any help would be appreciated.
 

Attachments

  • c7bf0944-3182-4b94-9a48-5fbcae468dd0.png
    c7bf0944-3182-4b94-9a48-5fbcae468dd0.png
    1.5 KB · Views: 521
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
The time-derivative of L = r x p is not r x F. Don't forget that r depends on time as well.
L = rmv
Only if r and v are perpendicular to each other. In general, they are not.
 
Ok, well my intuition tells me to make L=r(psi)mvsin(θ) where θ is the angle between the positive x-axis and the line from the focal point to the point in the orbit

In my notes, we proved momentum was constant by making momentum L = m(x*vy - y*vx) and converting to polar coordinates. Does this equation apply to any elliptical orbit?

As for the time derivative of L = rmv, I am just unsure of how to do this as I can't seem to figure out the correct expression for v.
 
Last edited:
If you calculate the cross-product, this is exactly what you get. It looks tricky to get v_y, v_x based on the functions in the problem statement, however. L=r(psi)mvsin(θ) looks easier to evaluate.

As for the time derivative of L = rmv, I am just unsure of how to do this as I can't seem to figure out the correct expression for v.
The formula is wrong for an elliptic orbit anyway, there is no need to get v.
 
mfb said:
The time-derivative of L = r x p is not r x F. Don't forget that r depends on time as well.
Yes, it is. When you apply the product rule, the other term drops out because dr/dt is parallel to p.
 
Oh, right.
Good, now it makes sense again (as ##\dot{L}=\tau=r \times F##).
 
mfb said:
The formula is wrong for an elliptic orbit anyway, there is no need to get v.

Ok, I'm confused here. I'm continuing forward with L = mvr(ψ)sin(θ), but I don't understand why I don't need to get v, since v isn't constant? I know that when taking the time derivative of L one of the terms is r x p = 0 because they parallel
 
derravaragh said:
From here I'm having a difficult time finding an expression for v(t). I tried using the relations
ω=((2*π)/T) and v = ω*r
These relations only give you one component of the velocity, due to the fact that the angle ##\varphi## is changing. The other component arises because ##r## varies with time.
 

Similar threads

Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
15
Views
4K
Replies
17
Views
421
Back
Top