Physical Interpretation of point transformation invariance of the Lagrangian

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves demonstrating the invariance of the Euler-Lagrange equations under point transformations and seeking a physical interpretation of this invariance within the context of Lagrangian mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to prove the invariance but struggles with providing a deeper physical interpretation. Some participants question the physicality of coordinates themselves, suggesting they are merely tools for calculations.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring the implications of the Lagrangian's independence from coordinate systems. There is a recognition that the Lagrangian formalism is applicable across different coordinate systems, but no explicit consensus has been reached regarding the broader implications of this independence.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing discussion about the nature of coordinates and their role in physical theories, with some participants suggesting that coordinates are arbitrary and not inherently physical.

anton01
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Homework Statement


The problem asked us to show that the Euler-Lagrange's equations are invariant under a point transformation q_{i}=q_{i}(s_{1},...,s_{n},t), i=1...n. Give a physical interpretation.


Homework Equations


\frac{d}{dt}(\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{s_{j}}})=\frac{\partial L}{\partial s_{j}}


The Attempt at a Solution



I proved the invariance.
I am stumped with the physical interpretation. Except for the fact that the E-L equations are invariant when we change coordinates pointwise, I don't see any other physical interpretation. But this answer seems just repeating their question. :confused:
 
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Are coordinates something physical to begin with?
 
voko said:
Are coordinates something physical to begin with?

No they are not. They are something we make in order to do the calculations.
It was just a wild guess really.
 
That's what one should expect physically. Now you have proved that the Lagrangian formalism does not require any special coordinates, they all work. What does that mean about the formalism itself?
 
This means that the Lagrangian is independent of the coordinate system. And this makes sense, because a coordinate system is nothing physical and is arbitrary.
So, this means that the Lagrangian is universal? In other words, it works for any coordinate system.
 

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