Physical properties of a particle in Bohmian mechanics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the physical properties of particles in the context of Bohmian mechanics, particularly whether these properties are spread out through the wave function or localized at a point. Participants explore implications of this theory for particle detection and measurement, referencing experimental setups like bubble and cloud chambers.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that physical properties such as mass and charge are spread out over the wave function in Bohmian mechanics, not localized at the particle's position.
  • Others challenge the clarity of the question regarding the spread of properties, suggesting that properties are not the same as the particle itself and that detection occurs within a region rather than at a precise point.
  • One participant argues that while we detect positions, we do not directly observe properties like mass or charge, using the analogy of a weight scale to illustrate this point.
  • Another participant raises the question of how bubble and cloud chambers display charged particles, suggesting that these experiments show point-like detection rather than a spread of charge.
  • Some participants reference the "Mott Problem" and historical papers to discuss the implications of particle tracks in experimental setups, questioning how these observations align with the notion of properties being spread out in Bohmian mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of physical properties in Bohmian mechanics and how these relate to experimental observations. There is no consensus on whether properties are effectively spread out or localized, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the question of how properties are detected and represented in experiments like bubble and cloud chambers involves complex interpretations of quantum mechanics, which may not be fully addressed within the current discussion.

Nickyv2423
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Are the physical properties of a particle spread out through the wave function in bohmian mechanics?
This is from wikipedia
"Also, unlike in classical mechanics, physical properties (e.g., mass, charge) are spread out over the wavefunction in de Broglie–Bohm theory, not localized at the position of the particle.[9][10]"
If this is true, then how come we always detect particle properties as points?
 
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Nickyv2423 said:
Are the physical properties of a particle spread out through the wave function in bohmian mechanics?

I don't think this question has a well-defined meaning.

Nickyv2423 said:
This is from wikipedia

What article? Please give a link. Also, Wikipedia is not a good source by itself, particularly for a subject like this; you need to look at a textbook or peer-reviewed paper (and the Wikipedia article might give references to these).

Nickyv2423 said:
how come we always detect particle properties as points?

We don't. First, a particle's properties, like mass or charge, aren't the same as the particle itself. Second, we never actually detect a particle at a precise point; the best we can do is to detect it within some small region of space.
 
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Nickyv2423 said:
"Also, unlike in classical mechanics, physical properties (e.g., mass, charge) are spread out over the wavefunction in de Broglie–Bohm theory, not localized at the position of the particle.[9][10]"
That's true.

Nickyv2423 said:
If this is true, then how come we always detect particle properties as points?
Because we detect positions, not charges and masses. Have you ever seen the mass of your body? No, but you have seen the position of the needle on your weight scale, as in this picture
https://livehealthyosu.com/2011/08/25/dairy-plus-or-minus/weight-scale/
 
Demystifier said:
That's true.Because we detect positions, not charges and masses. Have you ever seen the mass of your body? No, but you have seen the position of the needle on your weight scale, as in this picture
https://livehealthyosu.com/2011/08/25/dairy-plus-or-minus/weight-scale/
But what about bubble chambers and cloud chambers? Don't they shows charged particles as point charges with no charge spread out?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/electron-spherical-electric-dipole-moment/
When we measure electrons we see them as point charges with a cloud of photons around them, its like a sphere.
I don't think we would get these results if particles in bohmian mechanics had their charge spread out at all times, right?
 
Nickyv2423 said:
But what about bubble chambers and cloud chambers? Don't they shows charged particles as point charges with no charge spread out?
They do not - they show a succession of single-point position measurements. If you google for "Mott Problem" you will find much good stuff including Sir Nevill Mott's 1929 paper which substantially resolved the quantum mechanical treatment of cloud and bubble chambers.

(As you might infer from the date, the appearance of tracks in cloud and bubble chambers was a problem for collapse interpretations as well as the Bohmian mechanics of this thread - the initial wavefunction is spherically symmetrical, so where does this linear track come from?)
 

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