Physicists and physics majors, was it worth it?

[Jess Karakov]

Hello PF. I'm a current sophomore in college studying aerospace engineering, but I was a physics major for most of last year. I am curious what would have become of that, since a lack of desire for low-paying employment opportunities trumped my aspirations in the field. I am curious, how many of you enjoy where you are now? Was it worth pursuing? What do you enjoy most about your job (be that in teaching, research, etc.) or major?

 

[sophiecentaur]

Hello PF. I'm a current sophomore in college studying aerospace engineering, but I was a physics major for most of last year. I am curious what would have become of that, since a lack of desire for low-paying employment opportunities trumped my aspirations in the field. I am curious, how many of you enjoy where you are now? Was it worth pursuing? What do you enjoy most about your job (be that in teaching, research, etc.) or major?

This is a hot issue in the UK eat the moment and I am aware that self funding in the US can result in heavy debt when people leave their higher education. There are still companies that offer candidates financial help and Engineering Graduates are worth money to industry in an way that's obvious to accountants. I am old enough not ever to have paid for education but, at the time, I was part of a very small cohort and the government could 'justify' it. I got an Engineering job with my Physics degree and Physics is still regarded as a 'portable' subject, taking people into Engineering, Finance and many other demanding fields.

 

[Rika]

I really like to tell ppl that studying physics isn't worth it. Because usually it isn't especially when you don't plan to do PhD afterwards. Note that I am happy with my current position because I went to art school afterwards and work in this field. But it has nothing to do with physics and I wasted so many years. Most of my peers got a job because they double majored physics with engineering field or had a hobby outside of science. It's true that you can be programmer or work in finance afterwards but you need to do extra training and again - it has nothing to do with physics. Tbh engineering graduates are those who are the closest to physics during their work.

Edit: have in mind things are different in different countries. In my country higher education is paid with taxes so you can study what you want, however you want without tuition fee. So everyone and their mothers have master degree nowadays. Because of that if you are not doctor or lawyer higher education isn't worth much - what really matters are skills and physics won't give you those. However in UK education is still very expensive and rare so "higher education perk" is still out there. You may be ok even with gender studies degree.

 

[Vanadium 50]

College is not trade school.

While I am a physicist, a great deal of my time is spent doing non-physics things: budgets, schedules, grant proposals, reports, committee work, etc. I think everyone who gets a degree in field X, whatever that field is, has to ask themselves "if I find myself not doing X for a living, am I still glad to have studied it?"

 

[sophiecentaur]

what really matters are skills and physics won't give you those.

Wow. That's fighting talk, unless you mean skills with tools. Mental skills that Physics will give you are applicable in all fields of study and business. The statistics for entry into top jobs with Physics are very good. My son took a physics degree and then a masters in Computer Science. His ex Uni friends are in pretty well every part of Academia and London business.

if I find myself not doing X for a living, am I still glad to have studied it?

Yes. Purely vocational training can get you some excellent jobs but it can leave you with less flexibility if you find you need to change.
Good Physics qualifications are almost Jedi Standard for life.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

It was worth it, and I still recommend students with a love for physics pursue it.

But pursue it in a way that minimizes debt upon graduation. If you can't earn scholarships to pay most of your way, you may well not be a good enough student to succeed in the long term.

A physics degree is probably not worth six figures of debt.

 

[Choppy]

I am curious, how many of you enjoy where you are now? Was it worth pursuing? What do you enjoy most about your job (be that in teaching, research, etc.) or major?

I did an undergraduate degree in physics, did a master's degree in plasma physics, jumped into medical physics for a PhD. I am currently working as a medical physicist with an adjunct academic appointment. For me it worked out great, so in my case pursuing physics was definitely worth it.

I enjoy a lot of aspects of my job - occasionally the same things that at other times I wrestle with. I get to work on a wide array of clinical problems that make a big difference in people's lives. I have the freedom to run a self-directed research program. I mentor graduate students. There is a lot to juggle though, and it can be stressful at times.

 

[Locrian]

There are several other majors that would have served me better, in that they have similar deep theoretical underpinnings but lead to more interesting work that's in greater demand.

I've retooled myself into a couple of those areas over time, so it can be done, but the time I spent learning physics was pretty much a waste of time.

Could have been worse, I suppose.

 

[gmax137]

How can studying something you are interested in ever be "a waste of time?"

 

[Locrian]

Because I'm interested in more than one thing, some things are more valuable than others, and I won't get to study every last thing I want to.

And honestly, the general university physics education is pretty sad, for entirely intentional reasons. Physics would have been better as a hobby after college education.

Like I said, could have been much worse. I was a music major at one time, after all.

 

[Jess Karakov]

How can studying something you are interested in ever be "a waste of time?"

Not so much a waste of time as it is a consideration for your financial limitations. Not everyone has the money to just go to college solely to study things they find interesting to get little payout. Sometimes the debt exceeds the interest, and that is in no way a fault of an individual but rather a greater problem in the American educational system.

 

[StatGuy2000]

Because I'm interested in more than one thing, some things are more valuable than others, and I won't get to study every last thing I want to.

And honestly, the general university physics education is pretty sad, for entirely intentional reasons. Physics would have been better as a hobby after college education.

Like I said, could have been much worse. I was a music major at one time, after all.

You've seen my reply before how in a different thread where, based on your response above, that I've concluded that you believe that a physics degree is worthless. You protested my conclusion at the time, but here in this thread, you appear to be saying the same thing.

 

[ModusPwnd]

If I could go back I would have majored in something else. I still like the subject. But for a degree and with no PhD it has proved nearly worthless for employment in my case.

I like my current job as an engineer. I think I got it in spite of my physics degree rather than because of my physics degree.

 

[symbolipoint]

You've seen my reply before how in a different thread where, based on your response above, that I've concluded that you believe that a physics degree is worthless. You protested my conclusion at the time, but here in this thread, you appear to be saying the same thing.

Not worthless. Physics degree by itself is , for too many individuals, not enough. One needs something more. Does one have skills from maintenance repair experience, or from engineering education? Some of just those would make a Physics graduate more appealing for some employers who might use a Physics graduate. Computer programming or other computer skills? Also good.

 

[symbolipoint]

If I could go back I would have majored in something else. I still like the subject. But for a degree and with no PhD it has proved nearly worthless for employment in my case.

I like my current job as an engineer. I think I got it in spite of my physics degree rather than because of my physics degree.

One would guess that some skills from your experience before you were hired helped your employer to hire you.

 

[ModusPwnd]

Sure, but not from my physics cirriculum. My work history, hobbies, and few engineering classes I took came up in my interview. My physics education didnt come up for either of my job's interviews nor has it come up on the job at all. It was meaningless for my work and was basically just an expensive hobby.

 

[radium]

I don't think a physics degree is worthless at all. The people I know who are not currently in academia all have very good jobs they are happy with. Condensed matter experimentalists can work at Intel or IBM etc. or do data science etc. I know a few physicists who have also gone into things involving machine learning/robotics and they say for some things they have an advantage over people with a computer science background since physical intuition is very useful in that area.

I think it does somewhat depend on the subfield. Ideas from subjects invoking a lot of stat mech can be applicable to a lot of areas.

 

[Locrian]

You've seen my reply before how in a different thread where, based on your response above, that I've concluded that you believe that a physics degree is worthless.

Yep, and I told you it was a really dishonest interpretation of my post at the time. You should dig it up and reread it.

 

[Locrian]

It's Sunday and Django is giving me a segment fault, so I'm going to take a moment to ponder on StatGuy's post.

Somehow the post:

but the time I spent learning physics was pretty much a waste of time..

Becomes,

you believe that a physics degree is worthless

This conclusion obviously differs from what is written for two reasons: The degree is more negative, and the scope is wildly different. Somehow the opinion that it was "pretty much" a waste of my time becomes that it's worth is zero, with no qualifier.

The reason claiming I think a physics degree is worthless is wrong is because I don't think a physics degree is worthless. For instance, if one's only goal was teaching high energy physics in academia, I think a physics degree is the best (and nearly only) way to do this.

Do I think it's a mediocre degree? Poorly taught at most universities? Low value for my specific situation? Sure. Worthless? Nope.

What's the motivation here? What could cause StatGuy to so aggressively misread my posts multiple times?

(Note: Those are rhetorical questions, I don't actually care.)

 

[StatGuy2000]

This conclusion obviously differs from what is written for two reasons: The degree is more negative, and the scope is wildly different. Somehow the opinion that it was "pretty much" a waste of my time becomes that it's worth is zero, with no qualifier.

The reason claiming I think a physics degree is worthless is wrong is because I don't think a physics degree is worthless. For instance, if one's only goal was teaching high energy physics in academia, I think a physics degree is the best (and nearly only) way to do this.

Do I think it's a mediocre degree? Poorly taught at most universities? Low value for my specific situation? Sure. Worthless? Nope.

What's the motivation here? What could cause StatGuy to so aggressively misread my posts multiple times?

(Note: Those are rhetorical questions, I don't actually care.)

@Locrian, you may have asked rhetorical questions (and as you said it, you don't actually care about my reasoning), but I will provide you with my motivation/reasons for replying about your response.

Consider the very context of this thread. The OP had specifically stated that he/she had switched majors from physics to aerospace engineering because of a perception that studying physics would more than likely lead to low-paying opportunities (or even unemployment).

In this very thread (and in numerous threads), I have seen @Rika in this very thread state that he thinks studying physics is a waste of time (see post #3 above) and I see you above state, and I quote, "but the time I spent learning physics was pretty much a waste of time."

How can any reasonable, logical person who is reading these statements not conclude that you (and @Rika, @ModusPwnd, and many others on PF) feel that studying physics is worthless (unless if one intends to pursue a PhD in the field)?

If you want to know my actual opinion in this regard, allow me to quote myself in post #19 in this thread (please focus on what I write after "Note:").

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/work-opportunities-for-physicists.758671/

 

[hilbert2]

I don't think any fundamental research discipline is worth it if you only think about what you can earn from it financially. If you're someone who's known since, say, age 12, that you absolutely want to become a scientist then it's certainly worth it.

 

[Rika]

Wow. That's fighting talk, unless you mean skills with tools. Mental skills that Physics will give you are applicable in all fields of study and business. The statistics for entry into top jobs with Physics are very good. My son took a physics degree and then a masters in Computer Science. His ex Uni friends are in pretty well every part of Academia and London business.

I think masters in CS can be the key to your son's success here. And like I said - in UK university education is rare so those "mental skills" that you are talking about are rare so having them really helps. When it's not rare and most young ppl have master degree, you need specific "job" skills (like programming) in addition to mental skills. Why choose physics graduate over cs or finance graduate for IT/finance job? You can choose physics graduate for programming job instead of cs graduate if he/she is better programmer. But studying cs helps you with programming more than physics.

Yes. Purely vocational training can get you some excellent jobs but it can leave you with less flexibility if you find you need to change.
Good Physics qualifications are almost Jedi Standard for life.

I'm not talking about pure vocational training. You have for example engineering degree that gives you both - mental and professional skills. It's better than physics degree because it gives you only "mental" skills.

Physics would have been better as a hobby after college education.

If I could go back I would have majored in something else. I still like the subject. But for a degree and with no PhD it has proved nearly worthless for employment in my case.

I like my current job as an engineer. I think I got it in spite of my physics degree rather than because of my physics degree.

And that. It's all about me. High five :d

Do I think it's a mediocre degree? Poorly taught at most universities? Low value for my specific situation? Sure. Worthless? Nope.

And that's also a reason.

I've studied engineering physics at technical university (in my country university focused on engineering degrees) and my degree was considered as less prestigious than "real" engineering degrees. CS/EE/MechE student had better curriculum, better lab equipment, better internship opportunities, student competitions and so on and we had nothing. During "career meetings" no one was interested in physics majors and our major was treated like a trash dump for those who were not good enough to study "real" engineering and regular university (non engineering degree school with science and humanities) is considered to be a trash dump for those who are too weak for technical university.

How can any reasonable, logical person who is reading these statements not conclude that you (and @Rika, @ModusPwnd, and many others on PF) feel that studying physics is worthless (unless if one intends to pursue a PhD in the field)?

It's just there are better degrees out there. Studying physics is like studying archaeology or gender studies. It is worth it if you want to be scientist and have reasonable chances to do so (being born in "proper" country, studying at very best university). Otherwise opportunity and time cost is very high. I do everything few years later than my peers with "proper" degree and it hurts. It's not worthless but it may be "not worth it".

 

[Wminus]

I think masters in CS can be the key to your son's success here. And like I said - in UK university education is rare so those "mental skills" that you are talking about are rare so having them really helps. When it's not rare and most young ppl have master degree, you need specific "job" skills (like programming) in addition to mental skills. Why choose physics graduate over cs or finance graduate for IT/finance job? You can choose physics graduate for programming job instead of cs graduate if he/she is better programmer. But studying cs helps you with programming more than physics.
I'm not talking about pure vocational training. You have for example engineering degree that gives you both - mental and professional skills. It's better than physics degree because it gives you only "mental" skills.And that. It's all about me. High five :d
And that's also a reason.

I've studied engineering physics at technical university (in my country university focused on engineering degrees) and my degree was considered as less prestigious than "real" engineering degrees. CS/EE/MechE student had better curriculum, better lab equipment, better internship opportunities, student competitions and so on and we had nothing. During "career meetings" no one was interested in physics majors and our major was treated like a trash dump for those who were not good enough to study "real" engineering and regular university (non engineering degree school with science and humanities) is considered to be a trash dump for those who are too weak for technical university.
It's just there are better degrees out there. Studying physics is like studying archaeology or gender studies. It is worth it if you want to be scientist and have reasonable chances to do so (being born in "proper" country, studying at very best university). Otherwise opportunity and time cost is very high. I do everything few years later than my peers with "proper" degree and it hurts. It's not worthless but it may be "not worth it".

Honestly, I don't know which country you are from, but this is NOT the case in the vast majority of places, and it's quite clear to me you're vastly overly exaggerating how "bad" it is in your own country - somebody isn't"trash" just because he/she doesn't want to study technical subjects. I hope nobody reads your post and gets discouraged from studying physics.

Before the oil crisis, it was normal in my country for the engineering physics Dipl.Ing. graduates with good grades to sign starting salaries at €80k/year, and certainly nobody "looked down" upon us.

Physics is a very marketable degree and it teaches you to think like none other. You just need to take the right courses and learn how to sell yourself. And yes, this degree IS good for earning ALLOT of money, the finance industry LOVES physicists (with social skills), it's just that most physicists don't care about making money or don't know that they can.

 

[Rika]

Honestly, I don't know which country you are from, but this is NOT the case in the vast majority of places, and it's quite clear to me you're vastly overly exaggerating how "bad" it is in your own country - somebody isn't"trash" just because he/she doesn't want to study technical subjects. I hope nobody reads your post and gets discouraged from studying physics.

I hope they do because that's reality. If people from USA/UK feel that physics degree wasn't best choice for them (comparing to let's say engineering) then think how it is in poorer, less developed countries. And please - I said "trash dump" because science degrees like physics or biology are considered to be less prestigious than engineering - it's easier to "get in", engineering majors are more competitive and you need to have good high school grades in order to get in. Ppl who get science degree usually do that in order to teach or because they didn't get anywhere else. It doesn't mean somebody is going to say to you "oh you study physics, you are a trash", it's just employeers aren't interested in you because you don't have any interesting skills to offer.

Before the oil crisis, it was normal in my country for the engineering physics Dipl.Ing. graduates with good grades to sign starting salaries at €80k/year, and certainly nobody "looked down" upon us.

Dude, I know how geology or oil&gas engineering degree looks like and curriculum is very different than physics. Physics gives you literally zero skills for that. And nobody ever asked me about diploma or grades. Everyone wanted to know what I can do and what professional skills I have.

Physics is a very marketable degree and it teaches you to think like none other. You just need to take the right courses and learn how to sell yourself. And yes, this degree IS good for earning ALLOT of money, the finance industry LOVES physicists (with social skills), it's just that most physicists don't care about making money or don't know that they can.

Dude, wake up. Apart from USA and UK maybe you can't choose your courses by yourself. You have very strict curriculum that you need to follow and that's it. I know that you people can cheat your way out by taking whole bunch of engineering or computer science courses and then you say on this forum "physics is very marketable degree yada yada bullshit" but that's not how it looks like in most EU countries. You have ECTS - based system and you can't take coursed outside of your major. And finance industry prefers applied math graduates because they learn proper skills during their studies. And really thinking isn't worth much if you don't have professional knowledge and skills. What can you "think" about programming if you don't know how to program? What can you "think" about oil&gas if you have no idea about it?

 

[StatGuy2000]

@Wminus, FYI @Rika is from Poland.

 

[ModusPwnd]

I don't think any fundamental research discipline is worth it if you only think about what you can earn from it financially. If you're someone who's known since, say, age 12, that you absolutely want to become a scientist then it's certainly worth it.

Well, I am somebody who has wanted to be a scientist my whole life. I'm not smart enough for that though and physics didn't leave me any fall back opportunities. I am not looking for lots of money. A middle class life with a used car and 1000 sq ft rental is fine for me.

In fact, nearly my entire graduating class wanted to be a scientist and none of them made it. (Though I think one is still trying.)

 

[Wminus]

I hope they do because that's reality. If people from USA/UK feel that physics degree wasn't best choice for them (comparing to let's say engineering) then think how it is in poorer, less developed countries. And please - I said "trash dump" because science degrees like physics or biology are considered to be less prestigious than engineering - it's easier to "get in", engineering majors are more competitive and you need to have good high school grades in order to get in. Ppl who get science degree usually do that in order to teach or because they didn't get anywhere else. It doesn't mean somebody is going to say to you "oh you study physics, you are a trash", it's just employeers aren't interested in you because you don't have any interesting skills to offer.

Duno how it is in Poland, but in my country, Norway, and the countries I'm familiar with, a degree in physics is essentially a quality stamp, and more analytically challenging than any field of engineering. If it's really so bad in Poland then that's a real shame.

Dude, I know how geology or oil&gas engineering degree looks like and curriculum is very different than physics. Physics gives you literally zero skills for that. And nobody ever asked me about diploma or grades. Everyone wanted to know what I can do and what professional skills I have.

No, the guys a few years above me not only got jobs in oil & gas, but also in consulting/finance/IT/engineering, and they still do. The only problem is that the oil crisis devalued our currency and so the wages measured in euros fell across all industries

Dude, wake up. Apart from USA and UK maybe you can't choose your courses by yourself. You have very strict curriculum that you need to follow and that's it. I know that you people can cheat your way out by taking whole bunch of engineering or computer science courses and then you say on this forum "physics is very marketable degree yada yada bullshit" but that's not how it looks like in most EU countries. You have ECTS - based system and you can't take coursed outside of your major. And finance industry prefers applied math graduates because they learn proper skills during their studies. And really thinking isn't worth much if you don't have professional knowledge and skills. What can you "think" about programming if you don't know how to program? What can you "think" about oil&gas if you have no idea about it?

First of all, any decent physics degree should give its students the opportunity to become quite good at programming. My university certainly does, and so does the German system, where I was on exchange.

Second, "finance industry prefers applied math graduates" is simply wrong. On the undergrad level, for corporate finance, it's all about brute analytical prowess + ability to pull 100hour weeks over long periods of time + social skills; nobody cares what you learned in your undergrad (even if its finance/economics), as it is simply not that relevant and they expect you to learn whatever technical skills you need on the job (which are very simple - excel modelling, finance, writing skills and power-point making). On the PhD level, physicists (as well as engineers and mathematicians) are very common hires among quants; some even run their own hedge funds.

 

[Rika]

Duno how it is in Poland, but in my country, Norway, and the countries I'm familiar with, a degree in physics is essentially a quality stamp, and more analytically challenging than any field of engineering. If it's really so bad in Poland then that's a real shame.

It's not that physics as a field is more challenging than engineering or engineering is harder than physics. It all depends how you build degree program. You can build it in a way that engineering is more challenging or you can build it making physics more challenging. I've heard before than in Norway (or was it Sweden?) Engineering Physics is prestigious degree and you study Engineering Physics with concentration on engineering field of your choice - EE/MechE or Materials, right? It's different here where engineering physics is mix of everything.

No, the guys a few years above me not only got jobs in oil & gas, but also in consulting/finance/IT/engineering, and they still do. The only problem is that the oil crisis devalued our currency and so the wages measured in euros fell across all industries

From what I know Norway has decent oil&gas industry, right? So you may have tradition and education for that and maybe it's connected with engineering physics. Here if you want to do oil&gas you go to Qatar and we have special degree program (one university in whole country) for that. Oil&gas is not default choice for most ppl herein Poland. Most STEM majors (mostly EE and CS graduates) end up in IT. But you need to self-teach yourself how to program if your degree is in Physics or Math.

First of all, any decent physics degree should give its students the opportunity to become quite good at programming. My university certainly does, and so does the German system, where I was on exchange.

Been there too. Germany has probably the strongest physics in whole EU and they also value university education very much - most ppl there get vocational degree so again higher education is not so common. Germany has also very big R&D industry strongly connected with academia. When I was visiting Process Engineering dep. everyone and their mothers were working for Bayern. Physicists were working mostly on telcom - next gen optical fibre and all that jazz. It's different world and it's safe to assume that if you want to study physics in EU you should choose - Germany, UK, then some scandinavian countries and France maybe? Countries such as Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal, Ireland, all eastern EU countries like Poland are no good. You can learn good programming skills while studying Physics here in Poland but you need to choose specific degree for that called "Computational Physics" which is more or less Physics major with CS minor. Other physics degrees don't provide enough programming classes. I had two and it was MATLAB mostly.

Second, "finance industry prefers applied math graduates" is simply wrong. On the undergrad level, for corporate finance, it's all about brute analytical prowess + ability to pull 100hour weeks over long periods of time + social skills; nobody cares what you learned in your undergrad (even if its finance/economics), as it is simply not that relevant and they expect you to learn whatever technical skills you need on the job (which are very simple - excel modelling, finance, writing skills and power-point making). On the PhD level, physicists (as well as engineers and mathematicians) are very common hires among quants; some even run their own hedge funds.

Here quants are usually people with master degree in financial maths. We have many degrees connected with financial maths, finances, econometrics, big data and all that stuff that can prepare you for a job better than physics. Most jobs in finance require some programming or finance skills. And it's true there are also jobs like excel or office monkey but you don't need physics degree for that. Actually you don't need any degree for that. What I want to say physics won't give you any special advantage comparing to other degrees connected with math and finance.

What we are discussing now is probably the key - when you choose degree such as medicine or MechE your birthplace, university rank or circumstances doesn't really matter - you can get job literally anywhere. Physics is different and it seems that even in US if you aren't from top school you may struggle and physics can be taught poorly.

 

[Wminus]

It's not that physics as a field is more challenging than engineering or engineering is harder than physics. It all depends how you build degree program. You can build it in a way that engineering is more challenging or you can build it making physics more challenging. I've heard before than in Norway (or was it Sweden?) Engineering Physics is prestigious degree and you study Engineering Physics with concentration on engineering field of your choice - EE/MechE or Materials, right? It's different here where engineering physics is mix of everything.

As a field, physics is among the most challenging fields to learn, if it is taught properly.

From what I know Norway has decent oil&gas industry, right? So you may have tradition and education for that and maybe it's connected with engineering physics. Here if you want to do oil&gas you go to Qatar and we have special degree program (one university in whole country) for that. Oil&gas is not default choice for most ppl herein Poland. Most STEM majors (mostly EE and CS graduates) end up in IT. But you need to self-teach yourself how to program if your degree is in Physics or Math.

It's got nothing to do with the oil & gas industry, physicists are everywhere in Norway. The problem is with how physics isn't taught in Poland I think, not with the employability of the course.

Been there too. Germany has probably the strongest physics in whole EU and they also value university education very much - most ppl there get vocational degree so again higher education is not so common. Germany has also very big R&D industry strongly connected with academia. When I was visiting Process Engineering dep. everyone and their mothers were working for Bayern. Physicists were working mostly on telcom - next gen optical fibre and all that jazz. It's different world and it's safe to assume that if you want to study physics in EU you should choose - Germany, UK, then some scandinavian countries and France maybe? Countries such as Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal, Ireland, all eastern EU countries like Poland are no good. You can learn good programming skills while studying Physics here in Poland but you need to choose specific degree for that called "Computational Physics" which is more or less Physics major with CS minor. Other physics degrees don't provide enough programming classes. I had two and it was MATLAB mostly.
Here quants are usually people with master degree in financial maths. We have many degrees connected with financial maths, finances, econometrics, big data and all that stuff that can prepare you for a job better than physics. Most jobs in finance require some programming or finance skills. And it's true there are also jobs like excel or office monkey but you don't need physics degree for that. Actually you don't need any degree for that. What I want to say physics won't give you any special advantage comparing to other degrees connected with math and finance.

What we are discussing now is probably the key - when you choose degree such as medicine or MechE your birthplace, university rank or circumstances doesn't really matter - you can get job literally anywhere. Physics is different and it seems that even in US if you aren't from top school you may struggle and physics can be taught poorly.

Banks take in physics and math undergrads exactly because of their degree. If you can perform strongly in physics, it means you're hard-working and smart enough to do the job.

Listen, if it's tough in Poland, then fine, but in many Euro countries, and I would suspect the US & Canada too, a strong degree in physics gives you a good position when looking for jobs. I understand that you might've been unlucky , but it doesn't help to walk around and being bitter and discouraging other people.
All in all, in Western Europe at least (certainly including Italy - a physicist friend of mine from there got an investment bank internship without major problems), while yes there might be easier paths to a high-paying job than physics, that doesn't make it impossible to find a high-paying job.

 

[Rika]

I really find it sad that you patronize me. There are more and more ppl on this forum who are unhappy with physics degree (even if like me they have successful career) but you (and many others) just assume that it's something wrong with us - not with physics degree. I've studied physics because I've heard that talk "physics teaches you how to think and make you unique on job market" and I really regret it because it was a waste of time. Lucky me I had the opportunity to build up new career from scratch but not everyone can. But you (people who feel ok with physics degree or find it useful) try to hide the truth, belittle our experience saying that we were just unlucky or way of teaching was wrong. And I could believe it - that in our country we have it hard or my university was no good but look at this thread of StatGuy2000 on Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/6dvvfw/to_canadian_redditors_is_it_worth_it_for_canadian/

People from Canada are saying the same thing - higher education is very common and had lost it's initial value. Nowadays employers want you to be useful -demonstrate marketable skills, show that you can get the job done and pure science degrees are too broad versus engineering/applied science degrees. And more often you are better without college degree (especially if you need to pay for it a lot). Maybe your point of view is different because you are older - when my parents went to university, higher education could open any doors and it's value was totally different.

 

[symbolipoint]

People from Canada are saying the same thing - higher education is very common and had lost it's initial value. Nowadays employers want you to be useful -demonstrate marketable skills, show that you can get the job done and pure science degrees are too broad versus engineering/applied science degrees. And more often you are better without college degree (especially if you need to pay for it a lot). Maybe your point of view is different because you are older - when my parents went to university, higher education could open any doors and it's value was totally different.

Rika,
Some students, maybe many students, need some advising. Employers do want people to hire who know how to do things and have some practical skills. A few students may miss this understanding if they are too focused on just the subject of their interest (Physics, as an example) and have not included other courses of practical value such as Engineering or computer programming or some equipment skill & experience. You could try to go back in some way to attend a course or two or so to pick-up some of these - depending on what your current responsibilities in life are.

 

[Locrian]

How can any reasonable, logical person who is reading these statements not conclude that you (and @Rika, @ModusPwnd, and many others on PF) feel that studying physics is worthless (unless if one intends to pursue a PhD in the field)?

Because that's not what I said, it's completely divorced from what I wrote, and it's literally opposite of what I've written.

It's dishonest.

 

[elkement]

What I learn from these threads is how different the physics education seems to be in different countries.

I run an engineering consultancy and my business license is based on my degree in physics, I am literally a 'Consulting Engineer in Applied Physics'. Yes, I think it was worth it. Our Austrian system is very similar to the German one; so I second what has been said about it.

Our technical universities insisted on keeping the 'Dipl.-Ing.' degree - the MSc-equivalent degree for completing technical studies before the Bologna process started, prior to BSc/MSc - because of its reputation in industry.

 

[StatGuy2000]

Because that's not what I said, it's completely divorced from what I wrote, and it's literally opposite of what I've written.

It's dishonest.

Locrian, in what way am I being dishonest? I took quotes from your posts (as well those from others) in this thread and, based on those quotes, drew logical conclusions.

Can you specifically point to me where you state the opposite of my conclusions?

 

[Wminus]

I really find it sad that you patronize me. There are more and more ppl on this forum who are unhappy with physics degree (even if like me they have successful career) but you (and many others) just assume that it's something wrong with us - not with physics degree. I've studied physics because I've heard that talk "physics teaches you how to think and make you unique on job market" and I really regret it because it was a waste of time. Lucky me I had the opportunity to build up new career from scratch but not everyone can. But you (people who feel ok with physics degree or find it useful) try to hide the truth, belittle our experience saying that we were just unlucky or way of teaching was wrong. And I could believe it - that in our country we have it hard or my university was no good but look at this thread of StatGuy2000 on Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/6dvvfw/to_canadian_redditors_is_it_worth_it_for_canadian/

People from Canada are saying the same thing - higher education is very common and had lost it's initial value. Nowadays employers want you to be useful -demonstrate marketable skills, show that you can get the job done and pure science degrees are too broad versus engineering/applied science degrees. And more often you are better without college degree (especially if you need to pay for it a lot). Maybe your point of view is different because you are older - when my parents went to university, higher education could open any doors and it's value was totally different.

I apologise if I came across as patronising. It's just that my anecdotal experiences are totally different from yours.

I do agree however, that the career paths are less clear when you're doing physics contra engineering, economics, medicine, accounting et.c.