Positive and neagtive charge carriers current

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothetical existence of a positively charged particle similar in size to an electron and its implications for current flow in wires. Participants explore concepts related to charge carriers, current direction, and the potential for altering particle charges, as well as the behavior of currents in plasmas and semiconductors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a scenario where a positively charged particle could carry current in the opposite direction to conventional current, questioning the efficiency of such a system.
  • Another participant notes that in plasmas and electrolytes, both positive and negative charge carriers exist and move in opposite directions, suggesting this is a common occurrence.
  • A participant mentions thyratrons and their ability to handle greater currents due to positive ions, raising the question of whether particle charges can be altered.
  • It is argued that a particle's charge is intrinsic to its identity, and changing it would redefine the particle, while also emphasizing charge conservation.
  • Participants discuss the concept of holes in semiconductors as a way to describe current flow, with some clarifying that this does not involve actual ion movement.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the efficiency of alternating current flow in both directions, suggesting it could negatively impact certain electronic components.
  • Another participant points out that the definition of current is independent of the direction of charge carriers, highlighting historical misconceptions about current flow.
  • A later reply seeks clarification on the types of currents present in plasmas, specifically in relation to hydrogen plasma.
  • It is explained that in hydrogen plasma, protons and electrons act as free charge carriers, with electric fields causing them to move in opposite directions, contributing to total current density.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement, particularly regarding the implications of having both positive and negative charge carriers and the feasibility of changing a particle's charge. The discussion remains unresolved on several points, particularly concerning the efficiency of current flow in the proposed scenario.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include assumptions about the nature of charge carriers, the definition of current, and the implications of particle charge alterations, which remain unresolved in the discussion.

lufc88
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What would happen hypothetically if there was a positive charged particle the same size as an electron (that wasn't antimatter), that carried current in the opposite direction in a wire to a normal conventional current in another wire? According to the Lorentz force they would attract so again could these wires carry current in the opposite direction and alternate so both ends of the wire would be receiving current at exactly the same time? Wouldn't this mean that it would be more efficient than normal current?

Could charge ever be artificially induced in a material at a particle level giving a neutron a positive charge or an electron a positive one?
 
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This happens all the time in plasmas and electrolytes (except for the "same size" bit). In each case there are both positive and negative charge carriers at the same time. So typically a current in a plasma or an electrolyte will consist of motion of both types of charge carriers in opposite directions.
 
I've heard there are things called thyratron's as well and that they can handle much greater currents than similar hard vacuum valves/tubes since the positive ions carry considerable current.

So the other thing I'm asking is could we ever change a particles charge somehow or is this impossible?
 
lufc88 said:
So the other thing I'm asking is could we ever change a particles charge somehow or is this impossible?
A particle's charge is part of what defines the particle. E.g. the negative charge is part of the definition of an electron. So, if you changed its charge to positive then it would no longer be an electron.

Also, charge is conserved. So if you changed one particle from positive to negative then you would have to simultaneously change another from negative to positive.
 
lufc88 said:
According to the Lorentz force they would attract so again could these wires carry current in the opposite direction and alternate so both ends of the wire would be receiving current at exactly the same time? Wouldn't this mean that it would be more efficient than normal current?

I don't believe so, and it would probably be hell on certain electronic components that depend on a one-way flow of current such as a diode. It would take energy to move these particles, so I would guess you would get half the current as normal moving in each direction using the same amount of power.
 
The definition of current pays no heed to the direction of the actual charge carriers. After all, it was a long time before they realized that the direction flow of the carriers was the opposite to the flow of the conventional current. This is all a bit bogus, I think.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. What sort of currents are there in plasmas could you tell me more about them?
 
  • #10
I don't know exactly what you mean by "sorts" of currents, but in a hydrogen plasma like the sun you basically have protons and electrons as free charge carriers. So any e-field will send electrons one way and protons the other making a total current density which is the sum of the current densities of the protons and electrons separately.
 

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