Pressure gradient causes conservative force?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around whether the force that accelerates a fluid between two points of different pressure can be considered conservative. It touches on theoretical aspects of fluid dynamics, particularly the role of pressure gradients and viscous forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the force per unit volume due to a pressure gradient is given by ## \vec{f}_v=-\nabla P ##, and notes that since ## \nabla \times \nabla P=0 ##, it might imply a conservative nature.
  • Another participant argues that while the pressure gradient could be considered conservative, the presence of viscous damping forces in real fluids means that the overall forces are non-conservative.
  • A later reply emphasizes the role of gravity as a conservative force acting on an object within the fluid, and introduces a vector identity related to pressure gradients and equilibrium conditions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the forces involved. While some acknowledge the potential for the pressure gradient to be conservative, others assert that the overall forces in a fluid are non-conservative due to additional factors like viscosity.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of fluid dynamics, including the interplay between pressure gradients and viscous forces, and the assumptions involved in considering forces as conservative or non-conservative.

Alkmini Moschoviti
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Is the force that accelerates afluid between two points of different pressure conservative?
 
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A very interesting question. Since the force per unit volume is ## \vec{f}_v=-\nabla P ## , and ## \nabla \times \nabla P=0 ##, (a vector identity that is commonly known from E&M theory), you might think that could be possible. In a real fluid however, there will also be viscous damping forces on the volume that are part of the total force equation that are often left out of the equation ## \vec{f}_v=-\nabla P ##. ## \\ ## So that the answer is the forces in a liquid are non-conservative, even though the part that comes from the minus of the pressure gradient could be considered to be conservative. ## \\ ## Note: This is my own analysis=others may agree or disagree=this is the first time I have encountered this question. ## \\ ## Additional note: You could think of these forces as acting on a small object of finite volume that is placed in the fluid. (And of course gravity will also act on the object, which is a conservative force).
 
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Thank you so much for your answer
It is clear
 
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Alkmini Moschoviti said:
Thank you so much for your answer
It is clear
I added one more part above, about the force of gravity on an object in the fluid=be sure and see that. ## \\ ## Additional item: There is a vector identity, ## \int \nabla P \, d^3 x=\int P \, \hat{n} dA ##, (where ## \hat{n} ## is the outward pointing normal), and to have equilibrium, ## -\delta g \, \hat{z}+-\nabla P= 0 ##, (where ## \delta ## is the density (mass per unit volume)), so that you can actually derive Archimedes' principle from the pressure gradient force.
 
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