Pressure of liquid and evapouration of water

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of pressure in liquids, the mechanics of sucking liquid through a straw, and the process of evaporation of water. Participants explore the implications of pressure differences, fluid motion, and the temperature of water during evaporation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why water flows into the mouth when opened underwater, suggesting it may be due to lower pressure in the mouth compared to surrounding water.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on whether the formula P=hpg represents the pressure exerted on water molecules below a certain point in a tank.
  • A participant raises the point that pressure at the base of a submerged box acts upwards, and questions whether a larger surface area would result in a larger force despite the same pressure at that point.
  • Concerns are expressed about the temperature of surface water molecules during evaporation, with one participant suggesting that these molecules must reach 100 degrees Celsius to escape as gas.
  • James clarifies that the temperature of the water as a whole is room temperature and that only a few high-energy molecules at the surface can escape, leading to cooling of the remaining water.
  • Another participant challenges James' explanation by arguing that surface molecules need to gain enough energy equivalent to boiling water, questioning whether they must reach 100 degrees Celsius to evaporate.
  • James responds by reiterating that only a few molecules with sufficient energy can evaporate, emphasizing that the average temperature of the water remains lower than 100 degrees Celsius.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the temperature of water molecules during evaporation and the implications of pressure in fluid dynamics. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact conditions under which water molecules escape into the gas phase.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the energy of individual molecules and the definitions of temperature in relation to bulk properties. The discussion also highlights the complexity of fluid dynamics and thermodynamics without reaching a consensus.

sgstudent
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When we suck a straw, we produce a vacuum in our mouths hence the atmospheric pressure on the outside is greater than of the liquid above the straw hence pushing the liquid up. But what if we arrest underwater and we open our mouth, why would water flow into it? Is it because our mouth has a smaller pressure than the surrounding water, so it seeks to reach equilibrium so it flows into it?

Also, what allows fluid to flow about at constant and random motions? Is there a pressure explanation for this? When we use thee formula P=hpg at a certain point is that theft pressure exerted on whatever is below it? Eg I have a 10m water tank and if I use hpg at 5m, then is that the pressure exerted on the water molecules below it? Lastly, if I have a box placed into the water, the pressure at the base (parallel to the bottom) is acting upwards right, after calculating the P=hpg at that point. However, if I have a larger surface area box placed instead it will still have the same pressure at that point right? So would the force acting also be larger?

As for evaporation, since the water absorbs heat energy from the surrounding our body would be cooler right? But when the enter molecules at the surface of the water body gains enough energy then it would break free its bonds and escape as a gas, so does it mean that the water at the surface is at 100 degrees celsius? So if there is some gas in the air won't it be very hot?

Thanks for the help guys!
 
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sgstudent said:
When we suck a straw, we produce a vacuum in our mouths hence the atmospheric pressure on the outside is greater than of the liquid above the straw hence pushing the liquid up. But what if we arrest underwater and we open our mouth, why would water flow into it? Is it because our mouth has a smaller pressure than the surrounding water, so it seeks to reach equilibrium so it flows into it?

Also, what allows fluid to flow about at constant and random motions? Is there a pressure explanation for this? When we use thee formula P=hpg at a certain point is that theft pressure exerted on whatever is below it? Eg I have a 10m water tank and if I use hpg at 5m, then is that the pressure exerted on the water molecules below it? Lastly, if I have a box placed into the water, the pressure at the base (parallel to the bottom) is acting upwards right, after calculating the P=hpg at that point. However, if I have a larger surface area box placed instead it will still have the same pressure at that point right? So would the force acting also be larger?

As for evaporation, since the water absorbs heat energy from the surrounding our body would be cooler right? But when the enter molecules at the surface of the water body gains enough energy then it would break free its bonds and escape as a gas, so does it mean that the water at the surface is at 100 degrees celsius? So if there is some gas in the air won't it be very hot?

Thanks for the help guys!




The water at the surface is not 100 degrees C. Where a cup of water in a room is made up of septillions of water molecules, the temperature of the water as a whole is just room temperature. But with the random collisions of water molecules with one another and with the air, the energy of every individual molecule is not the same. Some may be faster and others slower. Some may be fast enough to escape the surface of the water altogether.

Evaporation cools the water because all that's happening in evaporation is that the highest energy molecules are escaping the cup. When this happens, the average energy and temperature is lowered as a result.

In fact, you can use this to freeze water by putting the cup in a vacuum. There's a nice video showing how to do this with liquid nitrogen.. That's right. You can freeze liquid nitrogen by putting it into a vacuum.



Hope this helps,

-James
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jfizzix said:
The water at the surface is not 100 degrees C. Where a cup of water in a room is made up of septillions of water molecules, the temperature of the water as a whole is just room temperature. But with the random collisions of water molecules with one another and with the air, the energy of every individual molecule is not the same. Some may be faster and others slower. Some may be fast enough to escape the surface of the water altogether.

Evaporation cools the water because all that's happening in evaporation is that the highest energy molecules are escaping the cup. When this happens, the average energy and temperature is lowered as a result.

In fact, you can use this to freeze water by putting the cup in a vacuum. There's a nice video showing how to do this with liquid nitrogen.. That's right. You can freeze liquid nitrogen by putting it into a vacuum.



Hope this helps,

-James


Hi James, but I thought that the surface molecules need to gain enough energy to escape from the bottom stuff; so isn't that energy equivalent to the amount of boiling water? So if we have a single water molecule m, and we calculate the energy to get to 100 degree it would be Q=mc(dt) then to get to the gaseous state its Q=ml. So won't it be at 100 degrees? Thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:
sgstudent said:
Hi James, but I thought that the surface molecules need to gain enough energy to escape from the bottom stuff; so isn't that energy equivalent to the amount of boiling water? So if we have a single water molecule m, and we calculate the energy to get to 100 degree it would be Q=mc(dt) then to get to the gaseous state its Q=ml. So won't it be at 100 degrees? Thanks

The temperature of the surface of water is not at 100 degrees. It's only those few molecules who have so much energy (mc dt + ml) compared to the average molecule and which happen to be at the surface, that can go into the gas phase.

It wouldn't be right to say that the molecules at the surface are all 100 degrees. Only those few which happen to evaporate can be considered to be that hot. Even then, the temperature of a single molecule is ill defined, as it is a bulk property of material, like pressure, or density.

Hope this helps,

-James
 

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