Probability of Deck of Cards, ignoring suits

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    Cards Probability
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the number of possible arrangements of a standard deck of 52 cards while ignoring the suits. Participants explore the distinction between combinations and permutations and seek to derive a formula applicable to this scenario.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to calculate the total number of arrangements of a 52-card deck without considering suits, referencing the factorial notation 52!.
  • Another participant questions whether the term "combinations" is appropriate, suggesting "permutations" instead.
  • Some participants propose that the arrangement of cards could be treated as if they were unique words, leading to a similar combinatorial problem.
  • A participant suggests a formula: \(\frac{52!}{4!^{13}}\) as a potential solution for the arrangement of cards without suits.
  • Further discussion includes a specific example of transforming the formula for a smaller deck of 8 cards containing 4 aces and 4 kings, with participants confirming the use of \(8!/4!^2\) for this case.
  • One participant expresses satisfaction with the formula's application to the smaller deck, indicating successful verification of the results.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to use permutations rather than combinations, but there is no consensus on the best approach or formula for calculating arrangements without suits. The discussion remains open to further exploration and clarification.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the implications of ignoring suits in their calculations, and there are varying interpretations of how to apply the proposed formulas to different scenarios.

Lenus
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I am looking for a way of calculating the possible combinations of a standard deck of 52 cards.

I am aware of the 52! number, which is the total no of combinations 52 cards can form in a deck, but would like to know how to determine the total no of combinations if the suits are ignored.

Thanks in advance.
 
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I do not see an expression for suits in 52!
 
Lenus said:
the possible combinations of a standard deck of 52 cards.

Do you mean "permutations" instead of "combinations"?
 
Doug Huffman said:
I do not see an expression for suits in 52!

??
isnt the number of ways of arranging 52-card deck 52! ?
 
The cards could as well be of 52 unique words, still with no suits.
 
Stephen Tashi said:
Do you mean "permutations" instead of "combinations"?

Yes, in fact I do.

All I need is the way of calculating the number of ways of arranging the deck of cards without suits, i.e. Qh As 7d would be same as Qs Ad 7c.
 
Doug Huffman said:
The cards could as well be of 52 unique words, still with no suits.

Sure, it would be the same problem, although we need to have 13 unique words, 4 each in such a deck of 52 cards to arrive to my initial question again.
 
Wild guess: \frac{52!}{4!^{13}}
 
mathman,

thanks and it looks like the right approach but would appreciate a little explanation, please.
As an example, how would that formula be transformed for the deck of 8 cards with 4 aces and 4 kings?

would that be 8!/4!^2?
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Lenus said:
mathman,

thanks and it looks like the right approach but would appreciate a little explanation, please.
As an example, how would that formula be transformed for the deck of 8 cards with 4 aces and 4 kings?

would that be 8!/4!^2?
Yes. Numerator is all permutations of deck. Each term of denominator is permutation of cards of the same rank.
 
  • #11
I have manually double-checked the result from the formula for the deck of 8 and it is just spot on!

Appreciate your help, thanks a lot!
 

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