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News Problems in Turkey?

  1. Oct 11, 2007 #1
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 11, 2007 #2
    Minor correction: they are recalling their ambassador from US and reward him some "vacation time".

    Things definitely are going to get more interesting again. With the US military being worn out in Iraq, I think regional powers sensed weakness and is now prepared to make moves.

    Personally I don't really understand what the big deal with the genocide vote is. It seems like Turkey is using it as a smoke screen to initiate independent action, ie. curbing the Iraqis Kurds.
     
  4. Oct 11, 2007 #3

    Art

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    This from the article
    rather ironic..
     
  5. Oct 11, 2007 #4

    chemisttree

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    Perhaps the question should be "How much of a problem is the Foreign Affairs Committee becoming?" What possible sane reason would the Committee have to take this destabilizing action now?
     
  6. Oct 11, 2007 #5

    Astronuc

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    I heard this morning about a resolution (or bill?) in Congress condemning the Armenian Genocide, which is still an issue concerning Turkey. Past Congresses have buried such legislation in the past.

    House Bill on Armenian Genocide Angers Turks
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15180113
    Bush doesn't want to deal with it.
    But then if not now - when?
     
  7. Oct 11, 2007 #6

    russ_watters

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    On the flip side, I'm wondering what the point of the resolution is. The distrustful-of-democrats in me is considering that it may be an attempt to sabbotage relations with Turkey to disrupt the war effort.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2007
  8. Oct 11, 2007 #7
    Germany is our ally, right?

    What if their government systematically denied the Holocaust for the past 62 years and still practiced NAZI-like ways?

    It's been 92 years for the Armenians.

    Our time has come.
     
  9. Oct 11, 2007 #8

    Astronuc

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    It may be bad timing, but with successive Republican majorities in Congress and/or Republican administrations, it has been put off until now.

    The modern world needs to come to terms with its past.

    And we need to move on and stop with the violence already.
     
  10. Oct 11, 2007 #9

    russ_watters

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    I really don't know the history that well, but what does any of that have to do with the US Congress passing a resolution? Why are they doing it now? Why does it need to be done at all?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2007
  11. Oct 11, 2007 #10

    russ_watters

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    For 90 years? Doesn't make sense to me.
     
  12. Oct 11, 2007 #11

    Astronuc

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    It has been a matter of expedience and convenience, especially after WWII and development of the Cold War.
     
  13. Oct 12, 2007 #12
    That sums it up.
     
  14. Oct 12, 2007 #13

    chemisttree

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    Was that why Clinton convinced the Republican-controlled congress to abandon its attempt to recognize the Armenian genocide in October 2000?

    Just like Clinton.... its all about mideast oil!

    I'm glad that all's well in that part of the world now and we can Moveon to recognize the Armenians suffering after 90 years, as if we haven't already in numerous forums and by various presidents.

    President Wilson
    President Reagan
    President Clinton
    President Bush
    Haven't we already done so?
    Was all this nonsense necessary.... now?
    I don't think so.
     
  15. Oct 12, 2007 #14

    BobG

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    Since 1988, you had Bosnia, Rwanda, Guatemala, Kosovo, Darfur, and Congo.

    Which brings up a problem in terminology. Civil wars turn extremely violent and often involved war crimes, crimes against humanity, etc, but the term 'genocide' has turned into a term meaning 'crimes committed by an enemy of ours'. The politics of naming: genocide, civil war, insurgency 'Genocide' has become as slippery a term as 'terrorist' has become.

    Genocide is a technically appropriate term to use when reffering to what happened to Armenians in Turkey, but Congress's bill implies a lot more than an acknowledgement of a past crime committed by a government that was deposed soon after the crime. In today's world, the acknowledgement is tossing Turkey in the group consisting of the 'Arabs' in Darfur, the Serbs in Bosnia and Kosovo, etc.
     
  16. Oct 12, 2007 #15
    Does the United States of America formally recognize the Armenian genocide?

    Its a yes or no answer.

    Why would the Turkish goverment spend over $300,000 a year to prevent it if it already exist?

    Is your "Turkishness" intact chemisttree? If you were over there they might lock you up or worse for telling the truth.

    Makes me sad to think the Turks locked up Hrant Dink's son.

    Turkey Lashes Back at Genocide Vote
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20071012/wl_time/turkeylashesbackatgenocidevote [Broken]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2017
  17. Oct 12, 2007 #16

    chemisttree

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    I would say 'yes'. What do you think?
     
  18. Oct 12, 2007 #17

    BobG

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    There's three sponsors for this bill. Three Democrats and two Republicans: George Radanovich, an extremely conservative Rep from Mariposa, California; Brad Sherman, a Democrat from Sherman Oaks, CA; Adam Schiff, a Democrat from Burbank, CA; Thad McCotter, a conservative-libertarian Republican from Michigan; and Frank Pallone, a Democrat from New Jersey. Radanovich and McCotter have been supporters of staying in Iraq, while the other three have been supporters of leaving.

    I also wonder why they would choose this particular time to introduce a bill that will cause problems in Iraq, but it isn't a particularly partisan effort.
     
  19. Oct 12, 2007 #18

    russ_watters

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    The answer is no.

    Should it? Why?
     
  20. Oct 12, 2007 #19

    Art

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    I think the distinction is made between the Turkish gov't of today and that of the Ottomans but it is vital the Turks face up to their past. It is important for the Armenians to have what happened to them declared genocide for practical as well as emotional reasons. For a start it would allow them to seek financial reparations from Turkey as paid to jewish people by the Germans after the Nazi genocide. These payments are still being made today despite the Nazi gov't too being long gone amd rightly so, whereas in Turkey people today are being imprisoned for mentioning the attrocity. Could you imagine a Germany of today imprisoning jews for complaining about the holocaust? It would be unthinkable and yet that is what is happening in Turkey.

    Personally I would like to see more of gov'ts doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do rather than ignore attrocities because of short term interests and I don't believe in the conspiracy theories floated in this thread re the motive for the vote. There has been a worldwide campaign for some years now for international recognition of this genocide with France being one of the countries to lend official support fairly recently - 2004.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2007
  21. Oct 15, 2007 #20

    chemisttree

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    Art, don't forget that much of the world has already done just that, including the United Nations. How will the US's recognition suddenly allow the Armenians to feel good about themselves or heal emotionally and begin to seek reparations?

    If this doesn't help the Armenians feel better, nothing will.....
     
  22. Oct 15, 2007 #21

    chemisttree

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    This was resolved before there was a word for 'genocide'.

    This was passed sometime after the word had meaning.

    Isn't this deja vu all over again?
     
  23. Oct 15, 2007 #22

    chemisttree

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    How do you possibly get 'no' out of this?
     
  24. Oct 15, 2007 #23

    Art

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    The United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide was only adopted in 1948, thirty years after the Armenian Genocide. Since then countries like France, Argentina, Greece, and Russia, have officially recognized the Armenian Genocide. However, as a matter of policy, the present-day Republic of Turkey adamantly denies that a genocide was committed against the Armenians during W.W.I. Turkey also dismisses the evidence about the atrocities as mere allegations and vehemently opposes official acknowledgement of the attrocity.

    Because of the Turk's continued denial the Armenian Genocide is still an issue of international significance. The Armenians want international pressure on Turkey to own up to their past sins and pay reparations for material loss under the terms of the 1948 Convention to the descendants of those Armenians who suffered.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2007
  25. Oct 15, 2007 #24
    Turkey wants in the European Union, they should at least own up to their past as the Germans have.

    The current Kurdish leaders have acknowledge their forefathers role and have applogized, this goes a long way to being able to go into the future without all that extra baggage.

    The near and mid-east has a sense of history which most Americans cannnot quite grasp. We are talking about an ancient culture in the case of the Armenians. History and the past are relavant to the present, they affect everything they do and how they act or react. The record must be set straight if old wounds are to heal. It's at least a step in the right direction, the truth is worthy in it's self.
     
  26. Oct 16, 2007 #25

    russ_watters

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    Didn't know about it. Why are we even having this conversation, then?

    This is all very strange to me.
     
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