Products of disjoint cycles. Explanation please.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of products of disjoint cycles in permutation notation, specifically focusing on the example of calculating the product of the cycles (1,2,3) and (1,2). Participants express confusion about the process and the resulting cycle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, Tamintl, expresses difficulty in understanding how to compute the product of the cycles (1,2,3) and (1,2), noting that their textbook states the answer is (1,3).
  • Another participant explains that cycles are applied from right to left and provides a step-by-step breakdown of how to derive the result (1,3) from the given cycles.
  • A different participant reiterates the method of applying each cycle to individual elements, confirming the same result of (1,3).
  • One participant elaborates on the function representation of the cycles, detailing how to compute the composition of functions to arrive at the result (1,3).
  • Tamintl later acknowledges understanding the concept after receiving explanations, particularly appreciating the visualization of disjoint cycles as permutations.
  • A participant humorously notes the coincidence of multiple responses being posted simultaneously, highlighting the collaborative nature of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the method of calculating the product of cycles and arrive at the same result of (1,3). However, initial confusion from Tamintl indicates that the understanding of the concept was not immediately clear, suggesting that some uncertainty remained before the explanations were provided.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention alternative visualization methods for understanding the multiplication of cycles, indicating that there may be various approaches to grasping the concept, but these methods are not fully explored in the discussion.

tamintl
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Hey all,

Currently trying to revise products of disjoint cycles. I am struggling to get my head around the idea however. Its strange, i can generate disjoint cycles easily however i can't quite see the product of cycles. Mabye I've missed something.

eg of what i don't quite get.

What is the product of
(1,2,3)(1,2)

My textbook says the answer is (1,3) but i can't understand how this is?

Please shed some light!

Kind regards
Tamintl
 
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The cycles are applied right to left.

The cycle (1 2) means that 1→2→1.
The cycle (1 2 3) means 1→2→3→1.

So 1→2 by the second cycle and then 2→3 by the first cycle.
In the same way 3→3 by the second cycle, and then 3→1 by the first cycle.
Finally 2→1→2, so 2 does not change.

So the combination of the 2 cycles is 1→3→1 or (1 3).

Cheers!
 
Welcome to PF!

Hey Tamintl! Welcome to PF! :smile:

So far as I know, you have to do it for each element separately (starting at the right).

So 2 goes to 1 and then 1 goes to 2.

3 goes to 3 and then 3 goes to 1.

1 goes to 2 and then 2 goes to 3.

That makes (1,3). :wink:
 
tamintl said:
Hey all,

Currently trying to revise products of disjoint cycles. I am struggling to get my head around the idea however. Its strange, i can generate disjoint cycles easily however i can't quite see the product of cycles. Mabye I've missed something.

eg of what i don't quite get.

What is the product of
(1,2,3)(1,2)

My textbook says the answer is (1,3) but i can't understand how this is?

Please shed some light!

Kind regards
Tamintl

(1,2) abbreviates the function g(x) defined as follows:
g(1) = 2
g(2)= 1
g(x) = x for all other values of x

(1,2,3) abbreviates the function f(x) defined as follows:
f(1) = 2
f(2) = 3
f(3) = 1
f(x) = x for all other values of x

The product (1,2,3)(1,2) abbreviates the composition of functions h(x) = f(g(x))

h(1) = f(g(1)) = f(2) = 3
h(2) = f(g(2)) = f(1) = 2
h(3) = f(g(3)) = f(3) = 1

This can be summarized as
h(1) = 3
h(3) = 1
h(x) = x for other values of x

Hence h(x) can be abbreviated as (1,3)

Of course, you can find simpler ways to visualize the multiplication so you don't have to write out the process in that much detail. Start with an ordered set (a,b,c) and apply the permutations to it and note the relative postions of the letters when you finish. Express how the letters are displaced as a product of cycles.
 
Wow thanks guys.. i see it now! I didnt realize you visualised the disjoints as permutations on their own, and then link them together


Thanks
 
I'm impressed that you got a cycle of 3 people answering the same question at the same time.
Especially tiny-tim who achieved to publish his post in the same minute as I did! :smile:
 

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