Proof of Hamiltonian equations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the Hamiltonian equations, specifically the relationship between the Hamiltonian function H and the generalized coordinates and momenta. Participants are examining the derivation of the partial derivatives of H and their implications within the context of Hamiltonian mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a derivation showing that the partial derivative of H with respect to the generalized coordinates leads to a specific expression involving momenta and Lagrangian terms.
  • The same participant notes a discrepancy in their calculations, particularly in the second term of their derived expression, which does not match the expected result.
  • Another participant references an external link, suggesting it may contain relevant information, though its relevance is questioned by others.
  • A later reply emphasizes the importance of understanding the technique for deriving the Hamiltonian's differential, suggesting that the focus should be on canonical variables rather than time derivatives.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relevance of time derivatives and the correctness of the derivation steps. There is no consensus on the resolution of the discrepancies noted in the calculations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential limitations in understanding the derivation techniques and the assumptions made regarding the relationships between the Hamiltonian, Lagrangian, and their respective variables.

Daaavde
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So, I should prove that:
- \frac{\partial H}{\partial q_i} = \dot{p_i}
And it is shown that:
- \frac{\partial H}{\partial q_i} = - p_j \frac{\partial \dot{q_j}}{\partial q_i} + \frac{\partial \dot{q_j}}{\partial q_i} \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q_j}} + \frac{\partial L}{\partial q_i} = \dot{p_i}
Where the first two terms delete each other (\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q_j}} = p_j) and the third one is equal to \dot{p_i} because of the Lagrange equation.

The problem is that when I take the partial derivative of H = \sum \dot{q_i}p_i - L, I get:
- \frac{\partial H}{\partial q_i} = - p_j \frac{\partial \dot{q_j}}{\partial q_i} - \dot{q_j} \frac{\partial p_j}{\partial q_i} + \frac{\partial L}{\partial q_i} = \dot{p_i}
Because I derive a product.

Now, my second term is completely different (even the sign doesn't match). Why is that?
 
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Sorry, I can't see how that answers the question.
There are no time derivatives here or maybe I overlooked something.
 
Ignore the time part. Make sure you understand the technique that yields the differential of the Hamiltonian that only has the differentials of the canonical variables (and time). From that, the partial derivatives w.r.t. canonical variables follow easily.
 

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