Proof that the integral is independent from the path from A to B

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding a proof related to the independence of line integrals from the path taken in a vector field. Participants explore the conditions under which the integral of a vector field from point A to point B is equal to the difference of a scalar function evaluated at those points, focusing on the relationship between the vector field and its potential function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants clarify that the proof shows the integral is equal to the difference of the function values at points A and B, given the condition that the vector field is the gradient of a scalar function.
  • Others express confusion regarding the notation and the steps in the proof, particularly about the transition from the integral expression to the evaluation of partial derivatives.
  • Some participants propose that the proof aims to demonstrate that the components of the vector field correspond to the partial derivatives of the scalar function.
  • A later reply questions why only the M component appears in certain integral evaluations, suggesting that the path taken in the proof restricts movement to one coordinate direction at a time.
  • Participants discuss the implications of notation and the selection of points in the proof, indicating that clarity in these aspects is crucial for understanding the argument.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the main premise of the proof but express differing levels of understanding regarding specific steps and notations. There is no consensus on the clarity of the proof's presentation, with some finding it straightforward while others find it convoluted.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the notation used in the proof may lead to confusion, particularly regarding the evaluation of the function at specific points along the path. Additionally, the discussion highlights the importance of understanding the relationship between the vector field and the scalar function's derivatives.

mathmari
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
4,984
Reaction score
7
Hey! :o

I am facing some troubles understanding the proof of the following theorem.

Let $\overrightarrow{F}$ be a vector field, $\overrightarrow{F}=M\hat{\imath}+N\hat{\jmath}+P\hat{k}$, where $M,N,P$:continuous at a region $D$ ($M,N,P \in C^0(D)$) . Then a suficient and necesary condition so that the integral $\int_A^B{\overrightarrow{F}d \overrightarrow{R}}$ is independent from the path from $A$ to $B$ in $D$ is that there is a differentiable function $f$ such that $\overrightarrow{F}=\nabla f= \hat{\imath} \frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{x}}+\hat{\jmath} \frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{y}}+\hat{k} \frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{z}}$ in $D$.
In this case the value of the integral is given by:
$$\int_A^B \overrightarrow{F}d \overrightarrow{R}=f(B)-f(A)$$

The proof that I am given is the following:
View attachment 2552
$$\overrightarrow{R}(t)=(x(t), y(t), z(t)), t_1 \leq t \leq t_2$$

$\displaystyle{f(x(t), y(t), z(t))}$

$\displaystyle{\frac{df}{dt}=\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{x}} \frac{dx}{dt}+\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{y}} \frac{dy}{dt}+ \frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{z}} \frac{dz}{dt}}$

$\displaystyle{\Rightarrow \frac{df}{dt}= \nabla f \cdot \frac{d \overrightarrow{R}}{dt}}$

$\displaystyle{\overrightarrow{F} \cdot d \overrightarrow{R}=\nabla f \cdot \frac{d \overrightarrow{R}}{dt} dt=\frac{df}{dt}dt=\overrightarrow{F} \cdot d \overrightarrow{R}}$

$\displaystyle{\int_A^B \overrightarrow{F} d \overrightarrow{R}=\int_{t_1}^{t_2} \frac{df}{dt} dt=f(B)-f(A)}$ $\ \ \ \ (*)$
$\overrightarrow{F}(x,y,z)=\hat{\imath} M(x,y,z)+\hat{\jmath} N(x,y,z)+\hat{k} P(x,y,z)$

We will show that: $$\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{x}}=M, \frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{y}}=N, \frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{z}}=P$$

View attachment 2553

$$x=x'+t \cdot h, y=y', z=z', 0 \leq t \leq 1$$
$$\frac{f(x'+h, y', z')-f(x', y', z')}{h}=\frac{1}{h} \int_B^{B'} \overrightarrow{F} d \overrightarrow{R}=\frac{1}{h} \int_0^1 M(x'+t \cdot h, y', z') \cdot h dt= \int_0^1 M(x'+t \cdot h, y', z') dt$$
$$h \rightarrow 0$$
$$\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{x}}=M(x,y,z)$$

In a similar way can show that
$$\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{y}}=N(x,y,z), \frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{z}}=P(x,y,z)$$

__________________________________________________________________________

At the beginning (till the point $(*)$ ) we suppose that there is a differentiable function $f$ such that $\overrightarrow{F}=\nabla f$ and we show that the integral $\int_A^B \overrightarrow{F} d \overrightarrow{R}$ is equal to $f(B)-f(A)$. Or have I understood it wrong? (Wondering)

Then I haven't understood the proof from the point
"$\overrightarrow{F}(x,y,z)=\hat{\imath} M(x,y,z)+\hat{\jmath} N(x,y,z)+\hat{k} P(x,y,z)$
We will show that: $\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{x}}=M, \frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{y}}=N, \frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{z}}=P$ $ \dots \dots \dots "$ (Worried)

Could you explain it to me? (Wondering)
 

Attachments

  • th.png
    th.png
    2.5 KB · Views: 130
  • thh.png
    thh.png
    3.8 KB · Views: 126
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
Hey! (Blush)

mathmari said:
At the beginning (till the point $(*)$ ) we suppose that there is a differentiable function $f$ such that $\overrightarrow{F}=\nabla f$ and we show that the integral $\int_A^B \overrightarrow{F} d \overrightarrow{R}$ is equal to $f(B)-f(A)$. Or have I understood it wrong? (Wondering)

You've understood perfectly! (Happy)

Then I haven't understood the proof from the point
"$\overrightarrow{F}(x,y,z)=\hat{\imath} M(x,y,z)+\hat{\jmath} N(x,y,z)+\hat{k} P(x,y,z)$
We will show that: $\frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{x}}=M, \frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{y}}=N, \frac{\partial{f}}{\partial{z}}=P$ $ \dots \dots \dots "$ (Worried)

Could you explain it to me? (Wondering)

Apparently they want to show that the components of $\overrightarrow{F}$ match the partial derivatives of $f$.
But to be fair, I don't understand why they're being so difficult about it, because I believe this is obvious from the definition of $f$. (Doh)

Apparently they take an infinitesimal step in the x direction using $f$, convert it to the corresponding infinitesimal path integral with $\overrightarrow{F}$, and then convert it to the M component of $\overrightarrow{F}$, showing these are the same. (Nerd)
 
I like Serena said:
Hey! (Blush)

You've understood perfectly! (Happy)

$\displaystyle{\int_A^B \overrightarrow{F} d \overrightarrow{R}=\int_{t_1}^{t_2} \frac{df}{dt} dt=f(B)-f(A)}$

Shouldn't it be $\displaystyle{\int_{t_1}^{t_2} \frac{df}{dt} dt=f(t_2)-f(t_1)}$

How can we get $f(B)-f(A)$ ? (Wondering)
I like Serena said:
Apparently they want to show that the components of $\overrightarrow{F}$ match the partial derivatives of $f$.
But to be fair, I don't understand why they're being so difficult about it, because I believe this is obvious from the definition of $f$. (Doh)

Apparently they take an infinitesimal step in the x direction using $f$, convert it to the corresponding infinitesimal path integral with $\overrightarrow{F}$, and then convert it to the M component of $\overrightarrow{F}$, showing these are the same. (Nerd)
Now we know that $\displaystyle{\int_B^{B'}\overrightarrow{F} d \overrightarrow{R}=f(B')-f(B)=f(x'+h, y', z')-f(x', y', z')}$$$\frac{f(x'+h, y', z')-f(x', y', z')}{h}=\frac{1}{h} \int_B^{B'} \overrightarrow{F} d \overrightarrow{R}$$
Why is this equal to $$\frac{1}{h} \int_0^1 M(x'+t \cdot h, y', z') \cdot h dt$$
where there is only $M$, and not $N$ or $P$ ? (Wondering)
 
mathmari said:
$\displaystyle{\int_A^B \overrightarrow{F} d \overrightarrow{R}=\int_{t_1}^{t_2} \frac{df}{dt} dt=f(B)-f(A)}$

Shouldn't it be $\displaystyle{\int_{t_1}^{t_2} \frac{df}{dt} dt=f(t_2)-f(t_1)}$

How can we get $f(B)-f(A)$ ? (Wondering)

It's the same thing.
The notation is a bit sloppy.
When $f(t)$ is written, it should really be $f(\overrightarrow R(t))$.

So $f(t_1)$ is really $f(\overrightarrow R(t_1)) = f(A)$.
Now we know that $\displaystyle{\int_B^{B'}\overrightarrow{F} d \overrightarrow{R}=f(B')-f(B)=f(x'+h, y', z')-f(x', y', z')}$

$$\frac{f(x'+h, y', z')-f(x', y', z')}{h}=\frac{1}{h} \int_B^{B'} \overrightarrow{F} d \overrightarrow{R}$$
Why is this equal to $$\frac{1}{h} \int_0^1 M(x'+t \cdot h, y', z') \cdot h dt$$
where there is only $M$, and not $N$ or $P$ ? (Wondering)

The point $B'$ has been selected in such a way that it has the same y and z coordinates as $B$.
That is why only the x coordinate is changed by a small amount.
So $d\overrightarrow R$ is a vector aligned with $\hat \imath$ at every point of the path from $B$ to $B'$.
As a result the dot product with $\overrightarrow F$ shows only $M$. (Mmm)
 
I like Serena said:
It's the same thing.
The notation is a bit sloppy.
When $f(t)$ is written, it should really be $f(\overrightarrow R(t))$.

So $f(t_1)$ is really $f(\overrightarrow R(t_1)) = f(A)$.

The point $B'$ has been selected in such a way that it has the same y and z coordinates as $B$.
That is why only the x coordinate is changed by a small amount.
So $d\overrightarrow R$ is a vector aligned with $\hat \imath$ at every point of the path from $B$ to $B'$.
As a result the dot product with $\overrightarrow F$ shows only $M$. (Mmm)

Ahaa! Ok! I got it! Thank you for explaining it to me! (Handshake) (Smile)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K