Proton and electron simple conceptual question. pretty basic,

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of a proton and an electron when isolated in a vacuum and the implications of quantized energy levels in atomic transitions. Participants explore the conditions under which these particles would form a hydrogen atom and the nature of energy transitions when an electron is given varying amounts of initial energy.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a proton and an electron, when released from a small distance apart in a vacuum, would attract and form a hydrogen atom without any initial kinetic energy.
  • Others argue that energy is released upon the electron's capture by the proton, suggesting that this process does not require initial kinetic energy.
  • One participant questions the behavior of an electron with slightly more initial energy than required for an emission, asking where the excess energy goes.
  • Another participant suggests that the excess energy could be released as radiation or kinetic energy, indicating that falling to available states from an unbound state is not quantized.
  • Contrarily, a different viewpoint asserts that all transitions, including those from unbound states, are quantized, although the energy gaps may be negligible at large distances.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the behavior of an incoming electron with kinetic energy between atomic levels, asking for confirmation on whether the excess energy is transferred to the atom.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of energy transitions and the quantization of states, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about energy levels and the definitions of bound versus unbound states, which are not fully explored in the discussion.

elegysix
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Suppose we could isolate a single proton and a single electron, and have them near each other without the high kinetic energies like in particle colliders.
imagine holding them in a perfect vacuum without gravity, a mm or so apart lol. Then we let them go.

What would they do? They're attracted because of opposite charges, but would they form hydrogen without any initial kinetic energy?
 
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They would attract and form a hydrogen atom. No initial K.E. is needed.
 
Indeed they would form a hydrogen atom and would release energy upon electron capture.
 
ok... So here's another one:

I know that emissions are quantized, but theoretically I can put the electron at any initial position/velocity.

So what happens if I give the electron just a little more initial energy than before, such that it is less than the minimum needed for an additional/increased emission?
Where/what does the 'increased remainder' go/do?
 
elegysix said:
ok... So here's another one:

I know that emissions are quantized, but theoretically I can put the electron at any initial position/velocity.

So what happens if I give the electron just a little more initial energy than before, such that it is less than the minimum needed for an additional/increased emission?
Where/what does the 'increased remainder' go/do?

The extra is released, either in the form of radiation or kinetic energy. Falling to one of the available states from being unbound is not quantized as far as I know, only the movement between 2 different states is.
 
Drakkith said:
The extra is released, either in the form of radiation or kinetic energy. Falling to one of the available states from being unbound is not quantized as far as I know, only the movement between 2 different states is.

It's always quantized, and this falling from a great distance is still a transition from one state to another. It's just that in the "unbound" (precisely, so far away that the binding energy is negligible) states the gap between adjacent energy levels is so small, and each energy level is so close to zero (the limit at infinite distance) that you can ignore the quantization.
 
I'm not sure, someone please confirm- if the incoming electron has a kinetic energy which is between two atomic levels, the excess will be transferred to the atom itself which is not bound and can move freely.
 

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