Prove that a given Lagrangian is not T-V (EM field)

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on proving that the action integral for a particle in an electromagnetic field does not conform to the standard T-V Lagrangian form. The action is defined as I = ∫(m/2 x'·x' + eA(x,t)x' + eφ(x,t)) dt, where the terms represent kinetic energy, vector potential, and scalar potential, respectively. The participant successfully derived the equations of motion leading to the Lorentz force but sought a formal proof regarding the velocity-dependent potential. Ultimately, they concluded that the generalized force is derived from a generalized potential U, leading to the relationship L = T - U.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Lagrangian mechanics and the principle of least action.
  • Familiarity with electromagnetic theory, specifically the Lorentz force law.
  • Knowledge of vector and scalar potentials in electromagnetism.
  • Proficiency in calculus, particularly in evaluating integrals and derivatives.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation of the Lorentz force from Lagrangian mechanics.
  • Explore the concept of generalized potentials in classical mechanics.
  • Learn about the D'Alembert principle and its applications in mechanics.
  • Investigate the implications of velocity-dependent potentials in Lagrangian formulations.
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for physics students, particularly those studying classical mechanics and electromagnetism, as well as researchers interested in advanced Lagrangian formulations and their applications in particle dynamics.

Siberion
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Homework Statement



Consider a particle of mass m and electric charge e subject to a uniform electromagnetic field (E(x,t),B(x,t)). We must remember that the force they exert is given by:

F = cE(x,t) + ex' \times B(x,t)

A principle of action that represents such particle subject to the Lorentz force is given by:

I = ∫(\frac{m}{2}x'*x' + eA(x,t)x' + e{\phi}(x,t)dt

Prove that this action doesn't have a Lagrangian in the form T-V.

The Attempt at a Solution



Basically I would like to know what is the most appropriate way to demonstrate this in a formal manner.

By inspection I can see that the first term corresponds to the kinetic energy of the particle, the second term corresponds to the vector potential whose curl leads to the magnetic field. The third term corresponds to the scalar potential from which we can obtain the electric field.

I've already calculated the equations of motion for such lagrangian, and have proven that they indeed lead to the Lorentz force, but I'm kind of confused about how to approach this question.For me, the velocity dependent potential is the term which gives the lagrangian this so called "different form", but how could I formally prove it?

Thanks in advance for your help! It is greatly appreciated.
 
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Hmm, I think I solved the problem.

We can take the Lagrange equations in the form that follows from the D'Alembert principle, and supose that the generalized force is derivable not from the potential V but from a more general function U, which is usually called generalized potential. Then, after some arrangements, L = T-U
 

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