Prove there does not exist invertible matrix C satisfying A = CB

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that there does not exist an invertible matrix C such that A = CB, focusing on properties of matrix multiplication and the implications of kernel and column dependencies.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of matrix multiplication and the relationship between the kernels of matrices A and B. There are attempts to reason through specific cases and general properties of linear transformations.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights into the relationship between the independence of columns in matrices A and B, suggesting that the mapping of dependent columns to independent columns is problematic. Others are seeking clarification on the use of kernel concepts and alternative approaches to the problem.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of missing context regarding the specific requirements or constraints of the problem, which may affect the reasoning process. Participants express uncertainty about the methods they should use to approach the problem.

songoku
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Homework Statement
Please see below
Relevant Equations
Matrix Multiplication
1681226190098.png


My attempt:

Let C =
$$\begin{pmatrix}
c_{11} & c_{12} & c_{13} \\
c_{21} & c_{22} & c_{23} \\
c_{31} & c_{32} & c_{33}
\end{pmatrix}$$

If C is multiplied by B, then:

1)
a21 = c21 . b11
0 = c21 . b11 ##\rightarrow c_{21}=0##

2)
a31 = c31 . b11
0 = c31 . b11 ##\rightarrow c_{31}=0##

3)
a32 = c32 . b22
0 = c32 . b22 ##\rightarrow c_{32}=0##

But a33 = c31 . b13 + c32 . b23 + c33 . b33 = 0, which contradicts the restriction from the question

So actually matrix C does not exist, not only invertible matrix C does not exist but also non - invertible matrix C can not exist.

Is this what the question wants? Or I am missing something?

Thanks
 
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songoku said:
Homework Statement: Please see below
Relevant Equations: Matrix Multiplication

View attachment 324741

My attempt:

Let C =
$$\begin{pmatrix}
c_{11} & c_{12} & c_{13} \\
c_{21} & c_{22} & c_{23} \\
c_{31} & c_{32} & c_{33}
\end{pmatrix}$$

If C is multiplied by B, then:

1)
a21 = c21 . b11
0 = c21 . b11 ##\rightarrow c_{21}=0##

2)
a31 = c31 . b11
0 = c31 . b11 ##\rightarrow c_{31}=0##

3)
a32 = c32 . b22
0 = c32 . b22 ##\rightarrow c_{32}=0##

But a33 = c31 . b13 + c32 . b23 + c33 . b33 = 0, which contradicts the restriction from the question

So actually matrix C does not exist, not only invertible matrix C does not exist but also non - invertible matrix C can not exist.

Is this what the question wants? Or I am missing something?

Thanks
Looks ok. Whether you should calculate it, or reason by a vector in the kernel cannot be said. That depends on the context that you didn't provide.
 
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fresh_42 said:
Looks ok. Whether you should calculate it, or reason by a vector in the kernel cannot be said. That depends on the context that you didn't provide.
If the context you mean is related to "Relevant Equations", I want to clarify that what I wrote in there was actually the method I could think of to solve this question, not the method I must use so I really want to learn another approach to solve the question.

I have no idea how to reason by a vector in the kernel. Kernel is null space so what I have in mind is something like this:

Let C be the transformation matrix T that transforms B to A so T(B) = A.
Kernel of T is the set of all B such that T(B) = 0 but not all elements in A is zero so I don't really know how to use kernel to solve the question.

Thanks
 
Your solution is probably the shortest.
 
Thank you very much fresh_42
 
To say how you can approach this thinking about kernels: If ##C## is invertible, then the kernel (I'm more used to using the word 'nullspace' when describing matrices and kernel when describing linear maps, but this is just terminology) of ##B## and the kernel of ##A=CB## are the same. However, the first three columns of ##A## are independent, so there is no nonzero element of the kernel of the form ##\begin{pmatrix} * \\ * \\ * \\0\end{pmatrix}## whereas for ##B##, the first three columns are dependent, so there is such an element in the kernel.
 
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to rephrase this nice comment, the matrix C maps the first three columns of B to the first three columns of A, but that is impossible, since dependent columns cannot map to independent ones. I.e. the fact that A and B have 4 columns is a smoke screen, and one can ask the question about their 3x3 left parts, where it is clear. Note also that this does not use invertibility of C either. In terms of the kernel, it uses only that the kernel of CB contains the kernel of B, whether C is invertible or not.
 
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