Proving Preserved Temporal Order of Cause and Effect

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the preservation of the temporal order of cause and effect in the context of special relativity, specifically using Lorentz transformation equations. The original poster presents a scenario involving two events, A and B, where event A is the cause and event B is the effect. The challenge is to prove that an observer in a different reference frame cannot measure event B occurring before event A.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the implications of the Lorentz transformation equations and the conditions under which the temporal order of events is preserved. There is an exploration of the relationship between the coordinates of events in different reference frames and the conditions that must be met for the causality to hold.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on how to approach the proof, suggesting that the focus should be on the positivity of the numerator in the transformed time equation. Others are exploring various equations and relationships to establish the necessary conditions for the proof, indicating a productive exchange of ideas without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing examination of the assumptions related to the speed of light and the implications of relative motion on the perception of event order. Participants are also considering the constraints imposed by the definitions of causality and simultaneity in the framework of special relativity.

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Homework Statement



Because there is no such thing as absolute simultaneity, two observers in relative motion may disagree on which of two events A and B occurred first. Suppose, however, that an observer in reference frame S measures that event A occurred first and caused event B. For example, event A might be pushing a light switch, and event B might be a light bulb turning on. Prove that an observer in another frame S' cannot measure event B (the effect) occurring before event A (the cause). The temporal order of cause and effect is preserved by the Lorentz transformation equations. Hint: For event A to cause event B, information must have traveled from A to B, and the fastest that anything can travel is the speed of light.

Homework Equations



Suppose (x_{A},y_{A},z_{A},t_{A}),(x_{B},y_{B},z_{B},t_{B}) are the coordinates in the coordinate system S, and (x'_{A},y'_{A},z'_{A},t'_{A}),(x'_{B},y'_{B},z'_{B},t'_{B}) are the coordinates in the coordinate system S', which is traveling at speed u<c in the positive x direction. Then from the Lorentz transformation equations,
t'_{A}=\frac{t_{A}-(u x_{A}/c^{2})}{\sqrt{1-(u^{2}/c^{2})}}
t'_{B}=\frac{t_{B}-(u x_{B}/c^{2})}{\sqrt{1-(u^{2}/c^{2})}}
x'_{A}=\frac{x_{A}-u t_{A}}{\sqrt{1-(u^{2}/c^{2})}}
x'_{B}=\frac{x_{B}-u t_{B}}{\sqrt{1-(u^{2}/c^{2})}}
y'_{A}=y_{A}
y'_{B}=y_{B}
z'_{A}=z_{A}
z'_{B}=z_{B}

Because B happened after A,
t_{B} > t_{A}

Because event A caused event B,
\frac{\sqrt{(x_{B}-x_{A})^{2} + (y_{B}-y_{A})^{2} + (z_{B}-z_{A})^{2}}}{t_{B}-t_{A}} \leq c

The Attempt at a Solution



I need to prove that t'_{B} - t'_{A} > 0

t'_{B}-t'_{A} = \frac{(t_{B} - t_{A})-(u/c^{2})(x_{B}-x_{A})}{\sqrt{1-(u^{2}/c^{2})}}

What do I do now?
 
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Since the denominator is positive, you just need to show the numerator is positive. That is, prove that
t_B-t_A > (u/c^2)(x_B-x_A)
 


I can't think of any way of proving that. Which equations should I use?
 


The one you already wrote:
\frac{\sqrt{(x_{B}-x_{A})^{2} + (y_{B}-y_{A})^{2} + (z_{B}-z_{A})^{2}}}{t_{B}-t_{A}} \leq c
 


But those are squared terms.

It implies that,

(x_{B} - x_{A})^{2} \leq c^{2} (t_{B} - t_{A})^{2}

So,

\lvert x_{B} - x_{A} \rvert \leq c (t_{B} - t_{A})
\frac{u}{c^{2}} \lvert x_{B} - x_{A} \rvert < (t_{B} - t_{A})

This could be either \frac{u}{c^{2}} ( x_{B} - x_{A} ) < (t_{B} - t_{A}) or \frac{u}{c^{2}} ( x_{A} - x_{B} ) < (t_{B} - t_{A}) depending on whether x_{B} > x_{A} or not.
 


Oh, OK. If x_{A} > x_{B}, then,
t_{B} - t_{A} > \frac{u}{c^{2}} (x_{A} - x_{B}) > \frac{u}{c^{2}} (x_{B} - x_{A}), since then(x_{B} - x_{A}) is negative and (x_{A} - x_{B}) is positive.

Thanks!
 

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