Proving some properties on a complete measure space

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around properties of complete measure spaces, specifically focusing on proving certain statements related to measurable sets and their measures. The participants are examining the implications of the definition of complete measure spaces on set operations and measures.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the implications of the definition of complete measure spaces, particularly how subsets of measurable sets with measure zero relate to the sigma-algebra. There is an exploration of set operations, such as symmetric differences and intersections, and their properties within the context of sigma-algebras.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights and clarifications regarding the properties of measurable sets. Some participants have offered guidance on how to approach the proof for part a) and have confirmed the validity of reasoning regarding intersections and unions of sets in a sigma-algebra.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of proving properties without providing complete solutions, focusing on the logical connections between measurable sets and their measures. There is an emphasis on the definitions and properties inherent to sigma-algebras and complete measure spaces.

mahler1
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Homework Statement .

A space ##(X,\Sigma, \mu)## is a complete measure space if given ## Z \in \Sigma## such that ##\mu(Z)=0##, for every ##Y \subset Z##, we have ##Y \in \Sigma##. In this case, prove that

a) If ##Z_1 \in \Sigma##, ##Z_1ΔZ_2 \in \Sigma## and ##\mu(Z_1ΔZ_2)=0##, then ##Z_2 \in \Sigma##.

b) If ##E_1, E_2 \in \Sigma## and ##\mu(E_1ΔE_2)=0##, then ##\mu(E_1)=\mu(E_2)##.



The attempt at a solution.

For a), ##Z_2\setminus Z_1 \subset Z_1ΔZ_2##, by definition of complete measure space, we have that ##Z_2\setminus Z_1 \in \Sigma##. If I could prove that ##Z_1\cap Z_2 \in \Sigma##, then, I could conclude that ##Z_2=(Z_2\setminus Z_1) \cup (Z_1 \cap Z_2) \in \Sigma##. I got stuck trying to prove the last part.

For b), I think I got it but I would like to check if my solution is correct:

First notice that since we are in a measure space and ##E_1, E_2 \in \Sigma \implies {E_1}^c, {E_2}^c \in \Sigma \implies E_1 \cap E_2=({E_1}^c \cup {E_2}^c)^c \in \Sigma##. Moreover, since it is a complete measure space, ##E_1\setminus E_2, E_2 \setminus E_1 \in \Sigma##. Having said that, we can write ##E_1=(E_1 \setminus E_2) \cup (E_1 \cap E_2)##, the same goes for ##E_2##. As ##\mu## is a measure, we have that ##\mu(E_1)=\mu(E_1 \setminus E_2) + \mu(E_1 \cap E_2)##, and ##\mu(E_2)=\mu(E_2 \setminus E_1) + \mu(E_1 \cap E_2)##.

Again, since ##\mu## is a measure, ##0\leq \mu(E_1 \setminus E_2),\mu(E_2 \setminus E_1)\leq \mu(E_1ΔE_2)=0 \implies \mu(E_1 \setminus E_2)=0=\mu(E_2 \setminus E_1)##.

But then, ##\mu(E_1)=0+\mu(E_1 \cap E_2)=\mu(E_2)##, which was what we wanted to prove.


I would appreciate some help for part a)
 
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mahler1 said:
Homework Statement .

A space ##(X,\Sigma, \mu)## is a complete measure space if given ## Z \in \Sigma## such that ##\mu(Z)=0##, for every ##Y \subset Z##, we have ##Y \in \Sigma##. In this case, prove that

a) If ##Z_1 \in \Sigma##, ##Z_1ΔZ_2 \in \Sigma## and ##\mu(Z_1ΔZ_2)=0##, then ##Z_2 \in \Sigma##.

b) If ##E_1, E_2 \in \Sigma## and ##\mu(E_1ΔE_2)=0##, then ##\mu(E_1)=\mu(E_2)##.
The attempt at a solution.

For a), ##Z_2\setminus Z_1 \subset Z_1ΔZ_2##, by definition of complete measure space, we have that ##Z_2\setminus Z_1 \in \Sigma##. If I could prove that ##Z_1\cap Z_2 \in \Sigma##, then, I could conclude that ##Z_2=(Z_2\setminus Z_1) \cup (Z_1 \cap Z_2) \in \Sigma##. I got stuck trying to prove the last part.

For b), I think I got it but I would like to check if my solution is correct:

First notice that since we are in a measure space and ##E_1, E_2 \in \Sigma \implies {E_1}^c, {E_2}^c \in \Sigma \implies E_1 \cap E_2=({E_1}^c \cup {E_2}^c)^c \in \Sigma##. Moreover, since it is a complete measure space, ##E_1\setminus E_2, E_2 \setminus E_1 \in \Sigma##. Having said that, we can write ##E_1=(E_1 \setminus E_2) \cup (E_1 \cap E_2)##, the same goes for ##E_2##. As ##\mu## is a measure, we have that ##\mu(E_1)=\mu(E_1 \setminus E_2) + \mu(E_1 \cap E_2)##, and ##\mu(E_2)=\mu(E_2 \setminus E_1) + \mu(E_1 \cap E_2)##.

Again, since ##\mu## is a measure, ##0\leq \mu(E_1 \setminus E_2),\mu(E_2 \setminus E_1)\leq \mu(E_1ΔE_2)=0 \implies \mu(E_1 \setminus E_2)=0=\mu(E_2 \setminus E_1)##.

But then, ##\mu(E_1)=0+\mu(E_1 \cap E_2)=\mu(E_2)##, which was what we wanted to prove.I would appreciate some help for part a)

##Z_1## and ##Z_1 \setminus Z_2## are in ##\Sigma##. ##(Z_1 \cap Z_2) = Z_1 \setminus (Z_1\setminus Z_2)##. The measureable sets form a sigma algebra, right?
 
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Dick said:
##Z_1## and ##Z_1 \setminus Z_2## are in ##\Sigma##. ##(Z_1 \cap Z_2) = Z_1 \setminus (Z_1\setminus Z_2)##. The measureable sets form a sigma algebra, right?

Oh, I see, as you've said ##(Z_1 \cap Z_2) = Z_1 \setminus (Z_1\setminus Z_2)##, and, ##Z_1 \setminus (Z_1\setminus Z_2)=Z_1 \cap (Z_1 \setminus Z_2)^c##, since a ##σ-## algebra is closed under countable intersection, one can deduce from here that ##Z_1 \cap Z_2 \in \Sigma## (for example, I can set ##\bigcap_{i \in \mathbb N} E_i## with ##E_1=Z_1, E_2=(Z_1 \setminus Z_2)^c## and ##E_i=A## for ##i\geq 2##). In a similar way, using the fact that a ##σ-##algebra is closed under countable union, it is proved that ##Z_2=(Z_2 \setminus Z_1) \cup (Z_1 \cap Z_2) \in \Sigma##

Thanks!
 
mahler1 said:
Oh, I see, as you've said ##(Z_1 \cap Z_2) = Z_1 \setminus (Z_1\setminus Z_2)##, and, ##Z_1 \setminus (Z_1\setminus Z_2)=Z_1 \cap (Z_1 \setminus Z_2)^c##, since a ##σ-## algebra is closed under countable intersection, one can deduce from here that ##Z_1 \cap Z_2 \in \Sigma## (for example, I can set ##\bigcap_{i \in \mathbb N} E_i## with ##E_1=Z_1, E_2=(Z_1 \setminus Z_2)^c## and ##E_i=A## for ##i\geq 2##). In a similar way, using the fact that a ##σ-##algebra is closed under countable union, it is proved that ##Z_2=(Z_2 \setminus Z_1) \cup (Z_1 \cap Z_2) \in \Sigma##

Thanks!

You're welcome! And you can just say that if C and D are in the sigma algebra then ##C \cap D## is in the sigma algebra. You don't have to spell out the whole countable intersection. Two is countable.
 

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