Quantum Kinetic Energy of Neutrons, Protons and Electrons

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the quantum kinetic energy of neutrons, protons, and electrons, particularly in the context of a neutron star composed of these particles. Participants explore the application of a specific formula for quantum kinetic energy derived for fermionic particles and its relevance to neutrons and protons, while also addressing misconceptions about particle classification based on spin.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a formula for the quantum kinetic energy of neutrons and questions its applicability to neutrons and protons, which are fermions, despite a misunderstanding that they might be bosons.
  • Another participant clarifies that protons and neutrons are indeed fermions with spin 1/2 and subject to the Pauli exclusion principle, correcting the initial misconception.
  • Further discussion highlights that baryons, which consist of three quarks, have half-integer spin and are classified as fermions, while mesons have integer spins and are classified as bosons.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the relationship between electric charge and spin, indicating a lack of knowledge on the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the classification of protons and neutrons as fermions and the implications of their spin. However, there is initial confusion regarding the nature of these particles, which leads to a clarification rather than a consensus on the initial question posed.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reflects a misunderstanding of particle classification based on spin and the application of quantum kinetic energy formulas, with some participants correcting earlier claims without resolving all uncertainties.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in particle physics, quantum mechanics, and the properties of baryons and mesons, particularly in the context of cosmological applications.

gennarakis
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Hi there,

I have a problem to solve in Cosmology which says:

"Write the formulas for the quantum kinetic energy of neutrons, protons and electrons as well as the formula for the gravitational energy for a neutron star that is comprised of free neutrons, protons and electrons in a ratio of Nn : Np : Ne = 93,4 : 6,6 : 6,6 (Nν=Nn+Nn=1,8x1057)

The numerical coefficients should be these for homogeneous density."
Attempt for solution

I find in the book "From Quarks to Quasars" by E.N.Economou that the total quantum kinetic energy of neutrons is 92,14% of the total, Uk,tot=Uk,n/0,9214=(ακ/0,9214)ħ2N5/3/(mnR2). The coefficients are aκ=1,1.

This equation is derived from the total kinetic energy of N fermionic particles (s=1/2) that are similar and non relativistic.

And my question is:

How can this equation be used for neutrons (and protons) which are bosons and don't follow Fermi's exclusion principle (where this equation is derived from)?
 
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gennarakis said:
How can this equation be used for neutrons (and protons) which are bosons and don't follow Fermi's exclusion principle (where this equation is derived from)?

Protons and neutrons are fermions with spin 1/2 h/2π, and they are subjects to the Pauli exclusion principle.
All baryons are fermions, without exception.
 
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Garlic said:
Protons and neutrons are fermions with spin 1/2 h/2π, and they are subjects to the Pauli exclusion principle.
All baryons are fermions, without exception.

I was confused for a second though I see my question is probably of lack of knowledge..but all bosons must have an integer spin, right? so, how baryons which are comprised of three quarks and hence have an integer spin are fermions and not bosons?
 
gennarakis said:
I was confused for a second though I see my question is probably of lack of knowledge..but all bosons must have an integer spin, right? so, how baryons which are comprised of three quarks and hence have an integer spin are fermions and not bosons?

Neutrons and protons have half-integer spin (1/2 h/2π).
This can be explained with the fact that individual quarks have spin 1/2 h/2π, and therefore baryons have ±1/2 or ±3/2 spin (as quarks can have different positions).
Mesons (like pions) however, have always integer spins.
 
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Garlic said:
Neutrons and protons have half-integer spin (1/2 h/2π).
This can be explained with the fact that individual quarks have spin 1/2 h/2π, and therefore baryons have ±1/2 or ±3/2 spin (as quarks can have different positions).
Mesons (like pions) however, have always integer spins.

Thanks a lot! You are right...I confused the electric charge with the spin of the particle and I couldn't see how three quarks with 2/3 and -1/3 spins cannot be integers...
 
gennarakis said:
Thanks a lot! You are right...I confused the electric charge with the spin of the particle and I couldn't see how three quarks with 2/3 and -1/3 spins cannot be integers...

I'm glad I could help. :smile:
 

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