Question on analytic mechanics

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem in analytical mechanics involving a bead moving along a parabolic path defined by the equation y = b*x^2. Participants are examining the derivation of the equation of motion and the kinetic energy expression for the bead constrained to this path.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the derivation of the kinetic energy expression, specifically why y(dot)^2 is expressed as 4*b^2*x^2*x(dot)^2 instead of 4*b^2*x^2.
  • Another participant clarifies that the dot notation indicates a derivative with respect to time, suggesting the use of the chain rule to relate dy/dt to dx/dt.
  • A third participant elaborates on the kinetic energy formula, stating it is a three-dimensional generalization and emphasizes that dy/dx is not a velocity, thus questioning the validity of equating it to kinetic energy.
  • A fourth participant discusses the constraints of the problem, noting that the motion is two-dimensional but reduced to one dimension due to the constraint, and describes the use of Lagrange multipliers or explicit constraint incorporation to find the equation of motion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the derivation of the kinetic energy expression and the interpretation of derivatives. There is no consensus on the correct approach to the problem, and multiple competing explanations are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the use of constraints and the implications for the degrees of freedom in the system, but there are unresolved aspects regarding the derivation steps and the interpretation of kinetic energy in this context.

hagopbul
Messages
397
Reaction score
45
TL;DR
There this example in analytical mechanics which I am not able to understand
Hello :

There is this example ,on analytical mechanics , which I am not able to understand why he solve it in that way

We have a bead moving on a parabola that it's equation is y = b*x^2

Find the equation of motion
Constrain equations :
y=b*x^2
z=0
The bead have only one coordinate call it x ,x(dot)=d(x)/dt, y(dot)=d(y)/dt , z(dot) = d(z)/dt
x(dot)^2 = x(dot)*x(dot)
Kinetic energy:
T = 1/2*m*(x(dot)^2+y(dot)^2+z(dot)^2)
=1/2*mx(dot)^2*(1+4*b^2*x^2)
Here is my question how he reached this above line
Why y(dot)^2 = 4*b^2*x^2*x(dot)^2
Shouldn't y(dot)^2 = 4*b^2*x^2

I am reviewing this class and just not able to find why it is like that

Regards
H
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Because the dot denotes derivative wrt time and not wrt x. It is just the chain rule of derivatives: ##dy/dt = (dy/dx)(dx/dt)##
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Albertus Magnus and Gavran
The kinetic energy is $$ \frac12m|\vec v|^2 $$ where ## \vec v ## is a vector quantity which can be expressed in Cartesian coordinate system as ## v_x\hat i+v_y\hat j+v_z\hat k ##.
## |\vec v|^2 ## is ## v_x^2+v_y^2+v_z^2 ## and the kinetic energy can be expressed as $$ \frac12m(v_x^2+v_y^2+v_z^2) $$ which is the three dimensional generalization of the kinetic energy. ## v_x ##, ## v_y ## and ## v_z ## are one-dimensional velocities along the ## x ##, ## y ## and ## z ## directions and they can be expressed as ## dx/dt=\dot x ##, ## dy/dt=\dot y ## and ## dz/dt=\dot z ##, respectively.
## dy/dx=2bx ## is not a velocity and $$ \frac12m(\frac{dy}{dx})^2=\frac12m4b^2x^2 $$ can not be kinetic energy.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Albertus Magnus
In the case of the bead constrained on the parabola, the only forces present is the force of constraint. The motion is two dimensional, however, the constraint ##y-bx^2=0## reduces the configuration space to one dimension, thus we should expect one equation of motion. This problem can be handled with the technique of Lagrange multipliers or one can simply eliminate one degree of freedom by incorporating the constraint explicitly.
The kinetic energy is given by:$$T={m\over 2}({\dot x}^2+{\dot y}^2)={m\over 2}{\dot x}^2(1+4b^2x^2),$$ where the constraint has been used to eliminate ##y##. Since there is no potential or other external forces present the Lagrangian is such that ##L=T##. From the Euler-Lagrange equations we have that:
$$m\ddot x=\dot p={\partial L\over\partial x}=4mb^2x{\dot x}^2.$$ Finding the equation of motion is an easy step form this point.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Gavran

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
740
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K