Quotients of direct sums of modules

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of modules over unital associative algebras, specifically focusing on the composition factors of a module expressed as a direct sum of simple modules. Participants explore the implications of the Jordan-Hölder theorem in this context and the validity of certain cancellation steps in the proof process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that if a module M can be expressed as a direct sum of simple modules, then the composition factors in any composition series of M are those simple modules, up to order and isomorphism.
  • Another participant agrees with this assertion, suggesting that the first isomorphism theorem can justify the cancellation of factors in the direct sums.
  • A later reply expresses skepticism about the initial claim, indicating that there may be issues with the reasoning presented.
  • Another participant echoes the skepticism, asking for clarification on specific concerns regarding the argument.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the validity of the initial claim, as some participants support it while others express doubts about its correctness.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not resolved the concerns regarding the cancellation of factors in direct sums, and the implications of the Jordan-Hölder theorem remain under discussion.

gauss mouse
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Hi, I keep seeing indirect uses of a result which I think would be stated as follows:

If a module [itex]M[/itex] over the unital associative algebra [itex]A[/itex] is written
[itex]M\cong S_1\oplus\cdots\oplus S_r[/itex] (where the [itex]S_i[/itex] are simple modules), then in any comosition series of [itex]M[/itex], the composition factors are, up to order and isomorphism, [itex]S_1,\ldots,S_r[/itex]. Perhaps this statement is not correct, but it's the best I can do when I can't find an explicit statement anywhere.

I think I would use the Jordan Holder theorem to prove this. I would argue as follows: a composition series for [itex]S_1\oplus\cdots\oplus S_r[/itex] is given by
[itex]S_1\oplus\cdots\oplus S_r>S_1\oplus\cdots\oplus S_{r-1}>S_1\oplus\cdots\oplus S_{r-2}>\cdots>S_1>\{0\}.[/itex]
Now, [itex](S_1/\{0\})\cong S_1,\ (S_1\oplus S_2)/S_1\cong S_2,\ (S_1\oplus S_2\oplus S_3)/(S_1\oplus S_2)\cong S_3,\ldots, (S_1\oplus\cdots\oplus S_r)/(S_1\oplus\cdots\oplus S_{r-1})\cong S_r[/itex] and so by the Jordan Holder theorem, in any comosition series of [itex]M[/itex], the composition factors are, up to order and isomorphism, [itex]S_1,\ldots,S_r[/itex].

I have a feeling that I am going wrong somewhere, perhaps in my cancelling when I do things like [itex](S_1\oplus S_2)/S_1\cong S_2[/itex]. The terminology of "direct sum" would suggest that this is not allowed.
 
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Assuming the S_i's are simple modules, what you've written is correct.

To justify canceling off a factor in the direct sums, just use the first isomorphism theorem: e.g., the map [itex]S_1 \oplus S_2 \to S_2[/itex] defined by [itex](s_1,s_2) \mapsto s_2[/itex] is surjective and has kernel equal to [itex]S_1\oplus 0[/itex].
 
Yes, they are simple, I've edited that in. Thanks a million for your help.
 
this looks fishy.
 
mathwonk said:
this looks fishy.
Is there anything specific that's making you skeptical?
 

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