Relation between EMR & the force of gravity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between electromagnetic radiation (EMR), specifically radio waves, and the force of gravity. Participants explore concepts related to the propagation of radio waves, the effects of gravity on light, and the implications of general relativity in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that radio waves follow the curvature of the Earth due to gravity, proposing an analogy with electricity choosing paths of least resistance.
  • Another participant counters that radio waves travel in straight lines and are refracted or reflected by the Ionosphere, asserting that gravity does not influence their propagation.
  • A third participant questions the initial premise by discussing the behavior of electromagnetic waves in relation to null geodesics in space-time, noting that general relativity's effects are negligible at the Earth's surface.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the concept of straight lines in curved space-time, emphasizing that light follows straight paths relative to space-time, which may appear curved due to the curvature of space-time itself.
  • One participant mentions that gravity can affect light on a large scale, referencing gravitational lensing observed in galaxy clusters.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the influence of gravity on radio wave propagation, with some asserting that gravity plays no role while others suggest it does. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various phenomena such as refraction, reflection, and gravitational lensing, but the discussion does not resolve the underlying assumptions about the nature of EMR and gravity.

MinnesotaState
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We know that radio waves follow the curvature of the earth. Reason? Gravity (I think)

The only logical thing I can think of is what Johann Heinrich Winkler discovered in mid 1800's; that when electricity is given multiple paths to choose from, it invariably chooses the best conductor (least resistance)


So if the mass of Earth is curving space-time at X curvature, then the path of least resistance will be X curvature ...assuming the radio wave was sent at X curvature ...then it should stay or want to stay at X curvature ...because it's lazy:P
 
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hi there

We don't, you thought
NO they don't, radio waves travel in straight lines.
radio waves, particularly those below ~ 1GHz are "refracted/reflected" around the Earth by the Ionosphere. Specially notable on freq's 30MHz and below.
Frequencies above ~ 100 MHZ are also capable of long distance ( over the horizon ) propagation by tropospheric ducting

I have used all these methods and a couple more in my amateur radio activities on many different frequencies
Gravity has nothing to do with it :)

Dave
 
Are you asking why electromagnetic waves follow null geodesics in space-time? You keep mentioning "radio waves follow the curvature of the earth" and "So if the mass of Earth is curving space-time at X curvature" so I suspect that you are. Keep in mind that when you are on the surface of the Earth (as you are now), the effects of general relativity are utterly insignificant and electromagnetic waves will behave pretty much as usual.
 
Thanks Dave

"refracted/reflected" around the Earth by the Ionosphere"

I remember this now from "empire of the air."

I was confused about straight lines in curved space-time (below)

Since light always goes in a straight line relative to space-time, if it encounters a curvature in space-time it will continue going straight but since space-time is curved, "straight" will be curved as well.
 
Gravity will affect light on a large scale ... the Abell 2218 galaxy cluster does a pretty good job with its gravity lensing

Dave
 

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