Relation between Hamiltonian of light ray and that of mechanics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the "Hamiltonian of light" within the context of ray optics. Participants explore the definitions, implications, and conservation laws associated with the Hamiltonian, as well as the relationship between light momentum and classical mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the definition of the "Hamiltonian of light" and its implications for momentum conservation.
  • Another participant suggests that the Hamiltonian of light indicates momentum conservation, referencing Snell's law and specular reflection as examples.
  • A participant questions the distinction between "momentum of ray" and "momentum of photon," seeking clarification on the definition of light momentum.
  • It is noted that the momentum of the ray is represented by the wavevector k, with the relationship |k| = 2π/λ.
  • Concerns are raised about the physical meaning of the Hamiltonian of light compared to that of classical mechanics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the definitions and implications of the Hamiltonian of light and its relationship to momentum. Multiple competing views and questions remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of defining light momentum and the Hamiltonian in ray optics, with references to different models and principles such as Fermat's Principle and the geometrical model of light propagation.

genxium
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I'm learning ray optics and feeling so confused by the definition of "Hamiltonian of light".

What I learned was that the "Hamiltonian of light" defined by H = n-|\vec{p}| = 0 indicates the momentum conservation, where n is refractive index and \vec{p} here is the canonical momentum. The canonical momentum is defined by \vec{p}=\frac{dL}{d\vec{r}'}=\frac{dL}{d(\frac{d\vec{r}}{ds})} where \vec{r} is the position vector, s is the path length and L = n*|\vec{r}'| is the Lagrangian.

My questions are

1. H of light is conserved, but is momentum of light conversed? If so how is it indicated in the equations?

2. H of classical mechanics is K+V=kinective energy+potential energy, this is a clear physical meaning, but what does H of light mean?

(Sorry for the long definition statement, I want to make sure that people hold the same definition of things otherwise they can point out where I went wrong)
 
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genxium said:
I'm learning ray optics and feeling so confused by the definition of "Hamiltonian of light".

<snip>

Google is your friend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamiltonian_optics

Buchdahl's book is good, too.

Short answers to your questions:

1) Yes (both Snell's law and specular reflection conserve momentum)
2) It means rays are perpendicular to wavefronts.
 
@Andy, thank you so much for the reply! It's informative but may I ask for more of question 1? What do you mean by "Snell's Law conserves momentum"?

I'm actually not clear about the definition of light momentum here, is it "momentum of ray" or "momentum of photon"? What is the instance that "owns" momentum? When I learned the canonical momentum mentioned in my question it was derived from Fermat's Principle thus I take it as "momentum of ray".
 
This thread is predicated on using the geometrical (ray) model of light propagation; momentum of the ray is represented by the wavevector k, with |k|= 2*pi/λ.
 

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