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Report on QGQG-1 school from Alejandro Satz, with his photos

  1. Apr 10, 2007 #1


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    good detailed reporting
    Part 1 of report---Thomas Thiemann's lectures including the Master Constraint, the achievement of the classical limit, Eugenio Bianchi's explanation of the LQG graviton paper of Rovelli et al, Laurent Freidel and Etera Livine spinfoam talks development of Feynman diagram for matter from QG

    Part 2 of report---Martin Reuter's QEG assymptotic safety

    thanks to f-h for pointing us to Alejandro Satz blog for this report!

    some beautiful pictures of snowy mountain scenery and the Quantum Gravitists having fun
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2007
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  3. Apr 10, 2007 #2


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    I have been an appreciative reader of Satz blog for well over a year but to me this is the best most helpful of his posting yet. Almost the most useful reportage on any blog of any conference or workshop.

    A curious side comment. Richard Kostecki one of the local organizers (the Warsaw professorship of Gravity and Gen Rel) put up the official poster for the school some time back, which we linked to at PF, and the poster said
    "The First Quantum Geometry and Quantum Gravity School"

    Notice the nuance of the word order. Quantum Geometry comes first giving indication that the kind of quantum gravity we are talking about is
    quantum geometrical quantum gravity.

    that is not a flat minkowski space of QFT with some gravitons to represent the force, but a real General Relativistic treatment, with no fixed background geometry, where gravity IS SHAPE and therefore quantum gravity must be the QUANTIZED DESCRIPTION OF SHAPE, in other words it must be quantum geometrical QG. Which is how Quantum Gravitists of the LQG, spinfoam, and related approaches do in fact think of it.

    and this is how the European Science Foundation (ESF) lists it
    http://www.esf.org/activities/research-networking-programmes/physical-and-engineering-sciences-pesc.html [Broken]

    and how John Barrett co-director of QGQG has it at his Nottingham UK site.

    But the tendency is still to think and say it in a switchedaround order, as
    "quantum gravity and quantum geometry"

    ESF funding commitment is for 5 years, to July 2011.
    here is the ESF discription
    http://www.esf.org/activities/research-networking-programmes/physical-and-engineering-sciences-pesc/current-esf-research-networking-programmes-in-pesc/quantum-geometry-and-quantum-gravity-qg.html [Broken]

    "Quantum Geometry and Quantum Gravity

    The main objective of the programme is to stimulate the exchange of ideas between researchers pursuing different approaches to quantum geometry and apply the results to the study of quantum gravity.

    The research programme will study several approaches to quantum gravity, namely loop quantum gravity, spin foam models, dynamical triangulations and matrix models. The common theme is the occurrence of quantum geometry in all these approaches. The research programme will study mathematical tools and techniques in non-commutative geometry and quantum groups and their applications to quantum gravity.

    The planned activities are workshops and conferences, schools and programmes of research visits. These are designed to increase the level of interaction between existing research groups and to give a broad education in all the approaches to a new generation of young researchers."

    Maybe most people care little about nuances like this or the precise architecture of how science funding and support for advanced theory research is organized. But doubtless some are involved with science administration at some level and prepared to appreciate how the ESF crafted this.

    For completeness here is also John Barrett's Nottingham QGQG site
    which says "quantum geometry and quantum gravity"
    but, just like you or I would :smile: Alejandro Satz, who does a great blog report, says "quantum gravity and quantum geometry"
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  4. Apr 10, 2007 #3


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    things are certainly moving fast
    Alejandro reports conversations with Thiemann and with Bianchi about recent LQG-incarnations achieving correct classical limit
    (something we also heard about in recent Bojowald papers)

    And Alejandro says that Reuter's assymptotic safe QEG was a surprise hit and roused a big discussion.

    Shifting attention for the moment from the QGQG-1 school to the April APS meeting in Florida, there some interesting parallels in what the hot topics are. First off, there is the interesting fact that this year the LQG community attained rough PARITY with string in the NUMBER OF INVITED SPEAKERS at the April APS meeting. More about that here: https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=164904 There are five invited string talks and roughly comparable three invited non-string background-independent QG talks.

    Looking more closely at the topics of the invited talks---two of them will be about things that Alejandro stressed especially from Zakopane.
    For example, he reported an indepth discussion with Bianchi about the
    Rovelli et al LQG gravitons paper, that Bianchi co-authored. But at the April meeting of the American Physical Society, Simone Speziale (who collaborated on that with Rovelli) will give a talk about it.

    Likewise Alejandro reported a big interest in assymptotic safety in Reuter's QEG
    that will be the subject of the third talk at the April meeting in Florida, given by Niedermayer.

    Alejandro didn't mention LQC, but for completeness I'll add that first talk in the non-string QG session at the APS meeting will be about recent advances in LQC. The invited speaker will be Singh, a close collaboratof of both Bojowald and Ashtekar.

    one of the nice little details was the rough parity with string----there are FIVE invited string talks this time. three of them will be prize-acceptance talks and will, I expect, cover a fair amount of research history.
    notice that the string community massively outnumbers non-string QG, so it is in some sense surprising that one would get a rough parity in representation.

    it is a detail to notice, but to refrain from reading too much significance into
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2007
  5. Apr 11, 2007 #4


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    Asymptotic Safety was indeed THE topic.

    Maybe the part of it is that most of the attendants will go away and start to seriously and deeply study renormalization and effective field theory.
    I think it will take some time until we understand how to interface this stuff with Spinfoams, etc.
  6. Apr 15, 2007 #5


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    Alejandro says to expect a report (possibly as early as today or Monday) about the group discussion "Where are we in the path toward QG?"

    he had a report almost finished Friday but a Blogger software accident wiped it out
    (when that kind of thing happens it is doubly difficult to reconstruct the post because one is so infuriated by the nuisance)
    I hope he does find time to redo the report. that discussion could have been quite an interesting one.

    If anyone is new to this topic, this was a discussion led by Carlo Rovelli at the
    first Quantum Geometry Quantum Gravity school (QGQG-1)
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2007
  7. Apr 15, 2007 #6
    I've recorded all talks on QGQG-1 school, also both Carlo's talks, and currently I'm working on enchance the quality of these recordings (cutting the silence, noise reduction and so on - however, generally the quality is good+), and I hope to publish it soon. All raw data is about 3 GB of .mp3's so there is also a problem where to put them. I've asked John Barrett for some space on ESF/QGQG site, and hopefully we'll publish it soon. I'll try also to collect all lecture notes, but this procedure may be only asymptotically renormalizable :). In any case, surely at least the notes of Ruth Williams [waiting to scan] and presentations of Jean-Marc Schlenker, Tomek Pawłowski i Paweł Kasprzak will be avaible soon. I've collected also >1GB of photos from many participants, and soon I'll select some of them and put it on the web.

    BTW, in unofficial comments of many participants, Carlo's talk was considered as the best school's talk, very probably because it was an attempt of personal, hence subjective, view on the full scope of QG&QG [in the non-string context]. The phrase "DO NOT BELIEVE YOUR TEACHERS" may become a catch-word (or an upstuff :)) for the new young generation of PhD's.

    Rick Kostecki
  8. Apr 15, 2007 #7
    ps. and may also not become :)
    and may also become something different, like Heyting-algebraists say.
  9. Apr 15, 2007 #8


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    Heh, heh, heh. That's the spirit!
  10. Apr 16, 2007 #9


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  11. Apr 16, 2007 #10


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    I also agree.
    Too much interpretations of the labels lead people astray and into science fiction.
  12. Apr 26, 2007 #11
    New photos available:

    http://www.fuw.edu.pl/~kostecki/photos/qgqg/index.html [Broken]

    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  13. Apr 27, 2007 #12
    Dear Rick,
    shame of you... you put our pictures of the last day:
    it seems as we were all bored, we were only very tired!
    :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:
  14. Apr 27, 2007 #13


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    Mostly you look tired (as you should) and satisfied. The pictures speak well for a successful intensive course.
  15. Apr 27, 2007 #14
    Tired? You? No, you all look great! :cool:

    *I* am tired. :yuck:
  16. Apr 28, 2007 #15
    To tell the true there was some boring lectures, the ones in cosmology...
    I was afraid because I was waiting for these.
    Substituting Ashtekar is not an easy job, I think: what a load!
  17. Apr 28, 2007 #16


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    I remember the first announcement had Ashtekar. I copied the list of lecturers as of 19 December 2006 here:
    At some point Ashtekar must have told them he couldn't make the engagement and that one of the Penn State
    postdocs who have been co-authoring with him would give the Loop cosmology talks in his place.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2007
  18. May 14, 2007 #17
    So see, it depends on observer :smile:
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