Right Hand Thumb Rule: Maxwell's Conclusions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Right Hand Thumb Rule as it relates to Maxwell's conclusions about the direction of magnetic fields. Participants explore the mathematical and conceptual foundations of this rule, its implications, and the nature of magnetic field direction in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how Maxwell derived the conclusion that the magnetic field direction corresponds to the curl of fingers with the thumb pointing in the direction of current.
  • One participant suggests that the definition of magnetic field direction is arbitrary and could be represented using a left-hand rule, implying that conventions can be modified without affecting the underlying physics.
  • Another participant argues that the right hand thumb rule is a learning tool derived from vector mathematics, and questions whether Maxwell literally used his hand to conceptualize these ideas.
  • There is uncertainty expressed about the actual direction of the magnetic field, with one participant stating that it is a matter of definitions rather than a physical reality.
  • One participant elaborates on the relationship between the magnetic field and the electromagnetic tensor, indicating that the magnetic field's representation is more complex than a simple directional label.
  • Discussion includes the idea that the choice of coordinate system affects calculations but does not alter the reality of the physical phenomena being described.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of magnetic field direction and the implications of the Right Hand Thumb Rule. There is no consensus on the interpretations or implications of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in definitions and the dependence on chosen coordinate systems, suggesting that these factors contribute to the complexity of understanding magnetic fields.

sambarbarian
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how did maxwell arrive at the conclusion that the direction of magnetic field is the way our fingers curl , with thumb in direction of current ?
 
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The definition of the direction of magnetic field lines is an arbitrary convention (like the technical current direction, too). You could use the left hand and say "ok, magnetic field lines go from south to north". You would have to modify the sign in some equations, but it would work.
 
sambarbarian said:
how did maxwell arrive at the conclusion that the direction of magnetic field is the way our fingers curl , with thumb in direction of current ?

Its a consequence of the vector mathematics. The right hand thumb rule is just a learning tool to describe that part of the mathematics. I doubt Maxwell was holding his right hand out while trying to understand things, although its possible if he learned vector calculus that way (although he helped develop the math as we know it today).
 
so , we cannot be sure which direction the field is taking ?
 
It is a matter of definitions, not physics. In particular, it is the result of using a right-handed coordinate system, where (1,0,0)x(0,1,0)=(0,0,1), the three vectors pointing, respectively, in the direction of a human's index finger,middle finger,and thumb.

As with any coordinate system, the choice does not affect reality, but it does affect our own calculations .
 
If the magnetic field is pointing north, that doesn't mean that there is actually some real substance that is moving or facing north (and not south). The magnetic field is actually just one way of representing three components of the electromagnetic tensor. Indeed, the x component of the magnetic field is associated with the y-z or z-y component of the electromagnetic tensor, because it is associated with current in the y-z or z-y plane. It doesn't really have anything to do with the x direction. x is just a convenient label because in 3 dimensions, x is "dual" to yz and y is "dual" to xz and z is "dual" to xy. What this means is there's a 1 to 1 correspondence between vectors in x,y,z space and area elements in xy, xz, yz space.

The cross product is really just a shorthand for this dual space relationship. A similar relationship exists for angular momentum. (Angular momentum in the z direction actually has nothing to do with z; it is motion in the x-y directions). If you want to extend the theory to higher than 3 dimensions, you need to take this into account.
 

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