Ring Without Identity - (mZ, +, * )

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Problem 2.15 from Paolo Aluffi's book, "Algebra: Chapter 0," specifically focusing on the concept of transferring the structure of a ring without identity from \( m\mathbb{Z} \) back to \( \mathbb{Z} \). Participants are exploring the implications of defining a new multiplication operation on \( \mathbb{Z} \) and the role of isomorphisms in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter seeks assistance in understanding how to approach Problem 2.15, particularly the transfer of structure from \( m\mathbb{Z} \) to \( \mathbb{Z} \).
  • One participant explains that the equation \( \varphi(a \bullet b) = \varphi(a) \cdot \varphi(b) \) leads to defining a multiplication \( \bullet \) on \( \mathbb{Z} \) as \( a \bullet b := m(a \cdot b) \).
  • Another participant elaborates on the implications of the isomorphism \( T \) and derives a contradiction assuming \( m \) and \( n \) are distinct positive integers, suggesting that they must be equal.
  • Peter expresses confusion about how the proposed multiplication \( \bullet \) relates to transferring the structure of the ring without identity and questions whether a ring homomorphism \( \psi \) is necessary.
  • A later reply clarifies that defining \( \bullet \) satisfies the requirement of the isomorphism and suggests using the inverse \( \psi \) to relate the operations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants have differing views on the necessity and implications of the isomorphism in transferring the ring structure. While some agree on the definitions and implications of the operations, Peter remains uncertain about the overall approach and the role of the isomorphism.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the definitions of the operations and the assumptions about the isomorphisms involved. The discussion reflects a complex interplay of definitions and theorems without reaching a consensus on the best approach to the problem.

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I am reading Paolo Aluffi's book, Algebra: Chapter 0.

I am currently focused on Chapter III, Section 2: The Category Ring.

I need some help in getting started on Problem 2.15 in this section.

Problem 2.15 at the end of Chapter III, Section 2 reads as follows:View attachment 4482
View attachment 4483I would welcome some help in getting a meaningful start on this problem ...

Peter
 
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Hi Peter,

For the first part:

Note that the equation $\varphi(a \bullet b) = \varphi(a) \cdot \varphi(b)$ means $m(a\bullet b) = ma\cdot mb$, or $m(a\bullet b) = m[m(a\cdot b)]$. So $\varphi(a\cdot b) = \varphi(m(a\cdot b))$, which implies $a\bullet b = m(a\cdot b)$ since $\varphi$ is $1-1$. So define $\bullet$ on $\Bbb Z$ such that $a\bullet b := m(a\cdot b)$ for all $a,b\in \Bbb Z$.

For the second part:

To be more explicit, let $\bullet_m$ be the multiplication defined on $\Bbb Z$ such that $a\bullet_m b = m(a\cdot b)$, $a,b\in \Bbb Z$. Suppose $m$ and $n$ are distinct positive integers, and there is a ring isomorphism $T : (\Bbb Z, +,\bullet_m) \to (\Bbb Z,+, \bullet_n)$. We will arrive at a contradiction. If $x := T(1)$, then $T(k) = T(k\cdot 1) = kx$ for all $k\in \Bbb Z$. Hence $T(m) = mx$. On the other hand, $T(m) = T(1\bullet_m 1) = T(1)\bullet_n T(1) = nx^2$. So $mx = nx^2$, i.e., $T(m) = T(nx)$; as $T$ is $1-1$, $m = nx$. Hence, $n$ divides $m$. On the other hand, $T$ has an inverse $S$ such that $S(k) = ky$ for all $k\in \Bbb Z$, where $y = S(1)$. Use the equation $S(T(m)) = m$ to show that $xy = 1$. As a consequence, show that $my = n$. This shows $m$ divides $n$. Since $m$ and $n$ are positive integers and divide one another, they are equal. ($\rightarrow\, \leftarrow$)
 
Euge said:
Hi Peter,

For the first part:

Note that the equation $\varphi(a \bullet b) = \varphi(a) \cdot \varphi(b)$ means $m(a\bullet b) = ma\cdot mb$, or $m(a\bullet b) = m[m(a\cdot b)]$. So $\varphi(a\cdot b) = \varphi(m(a\cdot b))$, which implies $a\bullet b = m(a\cdot b)$ since $\varphi$ is $1-1$. So define $\bullet$ on $\Bbb Z$ such that $a\bullet b := m(a\cdot b)$ for all $a,b\in \Bbb Z$.

For the second part:

To be more explicit, let $\bullet_m$ be the multiplication defined on $\Bbb Z$ such that $a\bullet_m b = m(a\cdot b)$, $a,b\in \Bbb Z$. Suppose $m$ and $n$ are distinct positive integers, and there is a ring isomorphism $T : (\Bbb Z, +,\bullet_m) \to (\Bbb Z,+, \bullet_n)$. We will arrive at a contradiction. If $x := T(1)$, then $T(k) = T(k\cdot 1) = kx$ for all $k\in \Bbb Z$. Hence $T(m) = mx$. On the other hand, $T(m) = T(1\bullet_m 1) = T(1)\bullet_n T(1) = nx^2$. So $mx = nx^2$, i.e., $T(m) = T(nx)$; as $T$ is $1-1$, $m = nx$. Hence, $n$ divides $m$. On the other hand, $T$ has an inverse $S$ such that $S(k) = ky$ for all $k\in \Bbb Z$, where $y = S(1)$. Use the equation $S(T(m)) = m$ to show that $xy = 1$. As a consequence, show that $my = n$. This shows $m$ divides $n$. Since $m$ and $n$ are positive integers and divide one another, they are equal. ($\rightarrow\, \leftarrow$)

Thanks Euge ... but I think i need some further help in order to fully understand what is going on ...

You write:

" For the first part:

Note that the equation $\varphi(a \bullet b) = \varphi(a) \cdot \varphi(b)$ means $m(a\bullet b) = ma\cdot mb$, or $m(a\bullet b) = m[m(a\cdot b)]$. So $\varphi(a\cdot b) = \varphi(m(a\cdot b))$, which implies $a\bullet b = m(a\cdot b)$ since $\varphi$ is $1-1$. So define $\bullet$ on $\Bbb Z$ such that $a\bullet b := m(a\cdot b)$ for all $a,b\in \Bbb Z$. ... ... "

BUT ... ...

... ... we were asked to "use this isomorphism to transfer the structure of 'ring without identity' $$( m \mathbb{Z} , + , \cdot )$$ back onto $$\mathbb{Z}$$ ...

I am struggling to understand how what you have said involves using the isomorphism to transfer the structure of 'ring without identity' $$( m \mathbb{Z} , + , \cdot )$$ back onto $$\mathbb{Z}$$ ... ... indeed it seems to me that the new multiplication operation $$\bullet$$ extends the group homomorphism $$\phi$$ (actually isomorphism) into a ring homomorphism ... and that is it ... ? I must be missing something ... certainly not seeing the 'big picture' here ...

Wouldn't using the isomorphism to transfer the structure of 'ring without identity' $$( m \mathbb{Z} , + , \cdot )$$ back onto $$\mathbb{Z}$$ involve some ring homomorphism $$\psi : m \mathbb{Z} \rightarrow \mathbb{Z}$$?Hope you can clarify ...

Peter
 
Last edited:
According to the author, he means that one should define a multiplication $\bullet$ on $\Bbb Z$ such that $\phi(a\bullet b) = \phi(a)\cdot \phi(b)$. Indeed, that's what I showed you. If you use $\psi$, which is the inverse of $\phi$, then you'll have $a\bullet b = \psi(\phi(a)\cdot \phi(b))$. That's all there is to it.
 

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