Rolling without slipping in non-sloping surface

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of an object rolling without slipping on a non-sloping surface, particularly whether it continues to move indefinitely. Participants explore theoretical implications, the role of friction, and practical considerations affecting motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that according to Newton's first law, an object rolling without slipping should continue to move indefinitely in theory.
  • Others argue that the friction force affects velocity, questioning how it can be zero if the object is rolling.
  • It is proposed that for rolling at constant velocity, the friction force is zero, implying no torque is applied to the object.
  • Some participants assert that friction is necessary for acceleration and deceleration, while others claim that a frictionless surface allows for uniform rolling.
  • There is a discussion about rolling resistance versus friction, with some stating that lower friction allows the rolling body to travel longer distances.
  • One participant mentions that the ball will slow down due to energy loss from air resistance, but theoretically, it will never completely stop.
  • Another point raised is that the friction force does not do work when an object rolls without slipping, even if it is not zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the role of friction, the implications of rolling resistance, and the theoretical versus practical outcomes of the motion. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the surface smoothness, the effects of air resistance, and the complexity of rolling resistance, which cannot be simplified to a single force of friction.

abdossamad2003
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Suppose we leave an object on a non-sloping surface that rolls and moves forward without slipping. Does this object continue to move indefinitely?
 
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abdossamad2003 said:
Suppose we leave an object on a non-sloping surface that rolls and moves forward without slipping. Does this object continue to move indefinitely?
Theoretically, Newton's first law applies.
 
but in free-body diagram, the friction force decrease velocity, isn't it?

1649528399759.png
 
abdossamad2003 said:
but in free-body diagram, the friction force decrease velocity, isn't it?

View attachment 299644
For rolling at constant velocity the friction force is zero. If the friction force were non-zero, then there would be a torque on the ball.
 
Given that the motion is rolling, it means that the friction is non-zero. Like a ball dropped on the ground.
 
abdossamad2003 said:
Given that the motion is rolling, it means that the friction is non-zero.
The friction is zero. The ball would continue to roll uniformly on a frictionless surface. Friction is only required for acceleration and deceleration.

In fact, if you add some air resistance to slow the ball down, then the friction acts in the direction of motion. In the opposite direction to what you have shown.
 
Consider two modes, one with low friction and the other with more friction
The rolling body travels longer distances on the surface with less friction.
 
abdossamad2003 said:
Consider two modes, one with low friction and the other with more friction
The rolling body travels longer distances on the surface with less friction.
It's rolling resistance, not friction, that determines the deceleration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_resistance

The reason a wheel is so efficient is that there is effectively no friction for a uniformly rolling wheel.
 
abdossamad2003 said:
but in free-body diagram, the friction force decrease velocity, isn't it?

View attachment 299644
Note that, in particular, in your model the ball will be slowing down, but its rotation will be speeding up!
 
  • #10
This diagram is probably correct because friction reduces rolling, but it contradicts Newton's second law.
1649531515566.png
 
  • #11
abdossamad2003 said:
This diagram is probably correct because friction reduces rolling, but it contradicts Newton's second law.
View attachment 299646
That diagram is equally wrong. Look at the Wikipedia page. Rolling resistance is complicated and cannot be reduced to a single force of friction.
 
  • #12
abdossamad2003 said:
This diagram is probably correct because friction reduces rolling, but it contradicts Newton's second law.
View attachment 299646
because the motion is negative acceleration not possitive acceleration
 
  • #13
abdossamad2003 said:
Does this object continue to move indefinitely?
In practice or in theory?
The loss of energy will be a function of the distance traveled and the airspeed.
Theoretically the ball will gradually slow down, but will never quite stop.
Practically the surface will not be perfectly smooth, so the ball will stop at the foot of a hill.
 
  • #14
If a body rolls without slipping on a surface then the friction force even if it is not vanished does not make work
 

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