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News Save troy davis's life

  1. Oct 15, 2008 #1

    mathwonk

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    Here in Georgia we are awaiting action by authorities to execute a young black man, Troy Davis for murder to which he has never been linked by any hard evidence of any kind.
    Although 9 eyewitnesses once implicated him, 7 of them now say otherwise, some say they were pressured by police to lie, and others say they heard or saw one of the last two holdout witnesses actually admit the murder.

    Indeed the man who first implicated Mr Davis may well be the guilty party.

    The US supreme court has just declined to even hear the case, without comment, but the execution could still be halted by the Georgia board of pardons.

    Letters of petition are being solicited by Amnesty International on their website:

    http://www.amnestyusa.org/death-penalty/page.do?id=1011005




    I have just sent this letter:

    To whom it may concern,


    I ask out of simple justice for either a permanent stay of the execution of Mr Troy Davis,

    or a new trial. In light of what everyone in the world knows now about this case, it

    is inconceivable to conclude that he has been convincingly proved to be guilty.

    The best that can be said, given the witnesses' two versions of the event,

    is that we are not sure who did it.

    In this situation to actually execute someone is a particularly barbarous act,

    recalling the old days of injustice toward all people of color in Georgia in the

    1960's and before.




    Please join me and many other people of conscience. It seems difficult, but we might save a man's life of whose guilt there is little or no evidence.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 15, 2008 #2

    Ivan Seeking

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    Will do, mathwonk. Regardless of his guilt or innocence, I no longer support the death penalty. Given the number of convictions that have been reversed based on DNA evidence, it is evident that many innocent people have been murdered in the name of justice.

    I also now believe that no Government should ever have the power to execute its citizens.

    Beyond that, if you say there is reasonable doubt, then all the more reason to take a few minutes and fire off a letter.
     
  4. Oct 15, 2008 #3

    mathwonk

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    ladies and gentlemen, is it possible you have not heard about this case? even desmond tutu is on board here. we are not talking about arguing over which analysis book is best for beginning students, but about an execution. "the force" will be diminished by an irretrievable amount if that occurs. and not only people in georgia will be culpable. please read up on this.

    this is your chance to join the struggle that occurred when you were in your infancy and those of us now in our dotage were marching and changing america.
     
  5. Oct 15, 2008 #4

    mathwonk

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    the math here is disturbing: 100 times as many people per day care about the economy as care about saving a man's life?

    The same thing happened in the 60's: most people did not demonstrate or put anything on the line. And i was surprised then too.
     
  6. Oct 17, 2008 #5

    mathwonk

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    Troy Davis's execution has already been rescheduled for October 27. This is a case that even that paragon of tenderness Pope Benedict, has apparently, questioned, along with Desmond Tutu, Jimmy Carter, and Amnesty International.


    If you want to get involved, you have about 9 days left.

    I cannot say he is innocent, but when 7 out of 9 witnesses recant, some claiming police pressure to convict, and others assert that one of the two remaining condemning witnesses, the one who first accused Mr Davis, is himself the killer, and that he actually confessed the crime, it seems only fair to have another hearing.

    Is that asking too much in a death sentence case?

    Recall, this is a case with NO physical evidence, NO DNA evidence, and NO confession (except reportedly by one of the remaining witnesses).

    The conviction was obtained entirely on the basis of witness testimony, 7/9 of which has been recanted. Are we still living in the 1950's?

    If you don't believe there is still strong entrenched bias against minorities, see the related article about the head of a republican women's organization in CA who distributed a caricature of Obama next to a bucket of fried chicken and a watermelon.

    Georgia is not demonstrably friendlier to minorities than California.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2008
  7. Oct 17, 2008 #6

    russ_watters

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    I hadn't. Now that I have and have read the GASC ruling denying the extrordinary motion for a new hearing, I don't see this to be a compelling case that calls for my action. I can't be certain that he's guilty, but the GASC's reasoning for not allowing a new trial at such a late hour sounds pretty reasonable. It's not the clear-cut case of an innocent man about to be executed that many are presenting it to be.

    http://www.gasupreme.us/pdf/s07a1758.pdf [Broken]
    What basis is there for your assertion that race is a factor here?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2017
  8. Oct 17, 2008 #7
    Dear Russ,
    if you think this country should execute those of whom we CAN'T be certain of their guilt, what if any would be a good reason for postponing an execution?

    Remember that the request here is for postponement not necessarily releasing this man from prison.

    You linked a 27 page report, could you specify what reason given by the GASC you specifically are in agreement with. It would also be refreshing sometimes if you would let you own conscience speak instead of robotically agreeing with the ruling of the Georgian supreme court.

    I agree with you that I don't see a racially motivated ruling here.
     
  9. Oct 17, 2008 #8

    mathwonk

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    do you see any racial motivation behind the fact that the emmett till case has never been successfully prosecuted in over 50 years in spite of the main suspects confessing to the crime? do you think it is accidental that race is apparently still a good predictor of which defendants will receive death sentences in the south?
     
  10. Oct 17, 2008 #9

    russ_watters

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    I said I. I wasn't on the jury. I don't know everything they knew. Also, there is no "certain" in this anyway.
    It isn't like this is his first appeal. How many postponements should he get?
    It went through the evidence, witnesses, and recantings one by one. However, there are probably two main points:

    -Recanting testimony does not automatically make the testimony invalid.
    -The actual testimony was compelling, meaning that there were a lot of pieces to the puzzle that fit together into the bigger picture. The recantings were non-specific and unhelpful. They didn't offer new evidence, just took back what was said.
    I read the ruling and you didn't and you're saying I'm robotically agreeing with someone!?!? C'mon!
     
  11. Oct 17, 2008 #10

    russ_watters

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    Misleading the way you put that, since double-jepoardy applies, but perhaps there was. So what? What does that have to do with the topic at hand?
    No. Again, what does that have to do with the case at hand?
     
  12. Oct 18, 2008 #11
    OK, fair enough at least this makes it more clear.

    It just sounds strange that you are doubting the guilt of this man, but at the same time ( rather poorly supported) are convinced that the GASC ruling should be upheld. I for one would argue that those two statements do not seem in agreement.
     
  13. Oct 18, 2008 #12
    As many as necessary to prevent even the slightest change of executing an innocent man!
     
  14. Oct 20, 2008 #13

    russ_watters

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    You are misunderstanding the criteria by which those two statements are arrived. They are not at all incompatible.

    I included that line because if I didn't, I knew I'd get a 'but how can you be completely sure...?' in response. Whether intentional or because of a misunderstanding of the issue, people play games with the standard of proof (see your next post!). Heck, even if I was on the jury, I wouldn't be allowed to use a standard of absolute certainty to convict.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2008
  15. Oct 20, 2008 #14

    russ_watters

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    Well, since that is clearly a physical impossibility, why don't you say what you really mean: that there should be no death penalty.
     
  16. Oct 20, 2008 #15
    Just sent the e-mail too.

    The Netherlands does not have a death penalty which is very fortunate. In the last couple of years, two major errs of the state's justice system were reversed. It pertained a brutal rape and kill, of which two guys were convicted (Puttense moordzaak). However when the DNA method became common, the case was re-examined and the two proved to be innocent beyond any doubt. With the death penalty it would have been too late to right the wrong.

    in another case it pertained a nurse in a care taking centre. The unusual number of deaths of patients always happened whe she was on duty. That was just about all the evidence, which got her convicted. lateron it was proven that this was not statistically as unlikely as it has been assumed. So there was no case at all. Just coincidence.
     
  17. Oct 20, 2008 #16

    Art

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    Ditto
     
  18. Oct 20, 2008 #17

    Art

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    Are you saying you support the death penalty even if it results from time to time in an innocent person being executed?
     
  19. Oct 20, 2008 #18

    Astronuc

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    I sent an email through Amnesty International.

    I oppose the death penalty.
     
  20. Oct 20, 2008 #19
    Given the lack of physical evidence, they should not be in such a hurry to put this man to death. My letter is sent.
     
  21. Oct 20, 2008 #20

    LURCH

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    I have sent mine, too. Just a question; have all the letters sent so far contained refferences to race (like the comment about justice and "persons of color" in the OP)?
     
  22. Oct 20, 2008 #21
    Mine had no reference to race in it at all.
     
  23. Oct 20, 2008 #22

    Astronuc

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    Mine either. I did edit the form letter pointing out the uncertainty and reasonable doubt, and my concern.

    I also pointed out that I do oppose the death penalty.
     
  24. Oct 21, 2008 #23

    mathwonk

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    Re: save troy davis's life:sworn witness statements

    from:
    http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/seven_of_nine_witnesses_against_troy_davis_have_recanted_their_testimony_/Content?oid=580468 [Broken]


    Below are excerpts from the affidavits of four of the seven witnesses who recanted their trial testimony against Troy Davis. For more of the recantations — as well as affidavits from newly discovered witnesses who say someone else confessed to the crime — check out Amnesty International’s Troy Davis report. (Scroll down to where it says: “The witnesses — recanted and new testimony.”)

    Dorothy Ferrell was staying in a hotel across the street from the crime scene and was on parole at the time. She was questioned by police shortly after the murder and later testified at Davis' trial.
    “I was scared that if I didn't do what the police wanted me to do, then they would try to lock me up again. … From the way the officer was talking, he gave me the impression that I should say that Troy Davis was the one who shot the officer, like the other witness [sic] had. ... I told the detective that Troy Davis was the shooter, even though the truth was that I didn't see who shot the officer. … I had four children at that time, and I was taking care of them myself. I couldn't go back to jail. I felt like I didn't have any choice but to get up there and testify to what I said in my earlier statements.”

    On the day of the murder, more than a dozen officers showed up at Darrell Collins’ house, according to his affidavit. They took him down to police headquarters for questioning, and he later testified against Davis. He was 16 at the time of the crime.
    “I told them that ... I didn't see Troy do nothing. They got real mad when I said this and started getting in my face. They were telling me that I was an accessory to murder and that I would pay like Troy was gonna pay if I didn't tell them what they wanted to hear. They told me … I would be lucky if I ever got out, especially because a police officer got killed. … After a couple of hours of the detectives yelling at me and threatening me, I finally broke down and told them what they wanted to hear. … I am not proud for lying at Troy's trial, but the police had me so messed up that I felt that's all I could do or else I would go to jail.”

    Larry Young was a homeless man who was being beat up near a bus station minutes before the murder. Savannah police officer Mark MacPhail was rushing to Young’s defense when Young’s attacker fatally shot the officer. Young was questioned by police that night.
    “They kept asking me what had happened at the bus station, and I kept telling them that I didn't know. Everything happened so fast down there. I couldn't honestly remember what anyone looked like. Plus, I had been drinking that day, so I just couldn't tell who did what. The cops didn't want to hear that and kept pressing me to give them answers. They made it clear that we weren't leaving until I told them what they wanted to hear.”

    Antoine Williams had just driven into the parking lot at the time the shooting occurred.
    "I couldn't really tell what was going on because I had the darkest shades of tint you could possibly have on my windows of my car. As soon as I heard the shot and saw the officer go down, I ducked down under the dash of my car. ... Later that night, some cops … asked me to describe the shooter and what he looked like. … I kept telling them that I didn't know. It was dark, my windows were tinted, and I was scared. … After the officers talked to me, they gave me a statement and told me to sign it. I signed it. I did not read it because I cannot read. … At Troy Davis' trial, I identified him as the person who shot the officer. … I felt pressured to point at him because he was the one who was sitting in the courtroom. I have no idea what the person who shot the officer looks like."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2017
  25. Oct 21, 2008 #24

    mathwonk

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    there is indeed no evidence that troy davis has been convicted because of his race. the evidence in georgia is that the death penalty is racially biased, but the bias depends on the race of the victim. An extensive survey by the paper AJC revealed that the death penalty results more than twice as often when the victim is white. when it is a white police officer, it may be even more often, but i do not know this.
     
  26. Oct 21, 2008 #25

    mathwonk

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    more affidavits: (from amnesty international website)

    AFFIDAVITS CONTAINING EVIDENCE IMPLICATING ANOTHER SUSPECT IN THE TROY DAVIS CASE

    Joseph Washington
    I saw Sylvester Coles – I know him by the name Red – shoot the police officer. I am positive that it was Red who shot the police officer ...

    Tonya Johnson
    Red then took both guns next door to an empty house and put them inside the screen door and shut the door ... he threatened me after this happened. He told me that he wanted to make sure that I did not tell the police about the guns he hid in the screen door that morning. This is why I did not testify about the guns at Troy's trial because I was afraid of what Red would do to me if I did. I have not told anyone about this until now because I was still scared ...But I have decided that I must tell the truth.

    Anthony Hargrove
    I know a guy named Red, from Savannah. His real name is Sylvester Coles. I've known Red for years and we used to hang out together. Red once told me that he shot a police officer and that a guy named Davis took the fall for it. He told me this about a year or so after the officer was killed ...

    Gary Hargrove
    I am sure that Red was facing in the officer's direction when I heard the shooting. ...I was never talked to by the police or any attorneys or investigators representing Troy Davis before his trial. I didn't go up to talk to the police that night because I was on parole at the time and was out past my curfew so I didn't want my parole officer to find out about that.

    Shirley Riley
    People on the streets were talking about Sylvester Coles being involved with killing the police officer so one day I asked him if he was involved ... Sylvester told me he did shoot the officer ...

    Darold Taylor
    I remember reading in the paper once about how a guy named Troy Davis got sentenced to the electric chair... One day when I was in the parking lot of Yamacraw drinking beers with Red. I told him about how I'd heard that he was the one who killed the officer. Red told me to stay out of his business. I asked him again if he killed the officer and Red admitted to me that he was the one who killed the officer, but then Red told me again to stay out of his business.
     
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