Self Learning Math/Physics

[sbrothy]

Yes, that's why I said "set theory" was an exaggeration. However, they called it as such, and it was kind of revolutionary back then since people were used to considering math in early classes as a drill for arithmetic only. I guess, calling it "set theory" and thereby sounding like something new wasn't the best idea. However, I will not dive into the realms of didactics of mathematics in order to avoid ranting.

I basically share the opinion of my former mentor.
(Me, seeing a parcel addressed to a didactician in his office while he was dean): "You send ... a parcel?"
(My mentor): "This was submitted here by mistake. At most, I'll send him something that ticks."

To be clear I also didn't mean we had proper Set Theory that early. But the concepts of sets and subsets and the use of the symbols like ⊂ and ⊆ were present.

 

[Muu9]

I might be wrong. I saw a textbook once that had a bit more than Venn diagrams. It may have been A levels or uni. It looked completely pointless, so I assumed it had to be uk's gcse curriculum.

What's pointless about set theory, or the set theory covered in the book?

 

[sbrothy]

Heck, a Venn diagram is just the most basic representation of shared sets isn't it? Why is it mentioned so much? I mean why does it seem so important to people? I'd expect the logical symbols representing the relationships between sets much more important.

 

[martinbn]

What's pointless about set theory, or the set theory covered in the book?

They only introduced notations and names without any motivation or use.

Heck, a Venn diagram is just the most basic representation of shared sets isn't it? Why is it mentioned so much? I mean why does it seem so important to people? I'd expect the logical symbols representing the relationships between sets much more important.

I agree. I don't know why they are taught.

 

[symbolipoint]

Heck, a Venn diagram is just the most basic representation of shared sets isn't it? Why is it mentioned so much? I mean why does it seem so important to people? I'd expect the logical symbols representing the relationships between sets much more important.

Visualization!

Symbols can be nice. Visualization can also be nice. More to say, but that should be enough.

 

[jtbell]

I love Ångström for that reason. Two for the price of one.

That's why we have people named Engstrom in the US. Their immigrant ancestors probably figured that was as close as they could expect their new neighbors to manage. I knew one in high school.

 

[CrysPhys]

Visualization!

Symbols can be nice. Visualization can also be nice. More to say, but that should be enough.

Yes. And I'd like to point out that Venn diagrams are particularly effective for communicating with non-mathematical audiences. At one time, I needed to make presentations to business executives (backgrounds were in business, finance, and project management). Venn diagrams they could readily grasp; they would have been lost with "symbols like ⊂ and ⊆".

 

[weirdoguy]

Why is it mentioned so much?

Why drawings are mentioned so much, when one can write equations without them? Some of you didn't have to make living out of teaching math/physics

 

[sbrothy]

Why drawings are mentioned so much, when one can write equations without them? Some of you didn't have to make living out of teaching math/physics

Well OK. I just meant that this particular name popped up very frequently. What I maybe didn’t consider was how widespread a concept it is and how often it applies.

No harm meant. I was certainly not out to ridicule your profession!

 

[weirdoguy]

I just meant that this particular name popped up very frequently.

Long time ago I read a set theory textbook where author said that Venn diagrams are way more general tools then most people think. He talked way more about that, but I was reading it just for fun, and it wasn't fun, so I don't remember more. Anyways, in polish schools they are taught just as a tool, without naming them. They are also used in the context of some exerices in probability (eg. to write $P(A'\cap B)$ in terms of other sets - for me Venn diagrams are the best way to see things).

 

[martinbn]

Why drawings are mentioned so much, when one can write equations without them? Some of you didn't have to make living out of teaching math/physics

My objection was not that they are taught, but that so much time is spent on them. When you tell the idea, and show an example to someone, a light bulb will light in there head and that's it. No need for dozens of lessions and hundreds of trivial exercises. Not to metion pedantic teachers who will insist on circles (as close as possible) and mark blobs as wrong.

 

[sbrothy]

Long time ago I read a set theory textbook where author said that Venn diagrams are way more general tools then most people think. He talked way more about that, but I was reading it just for fun, and it wasn't fun, so I don't remember more. Anyways, in polish schools they are taught just as a tool, without naming them. They are also used in the context of some exerices in probability (eg. to write $P(A'\cap B)$ in terms of other sets - for me Venn diagrams are the best way to see things).

Well we can’t all be going around reading set theory books for fun.

Nah. I shouldn’t talk. I read the weirdest things. Quite recently a book about infant gymnastics and I have no children.

 

[weirdoguy]

but that so much time is spent on them.

Oh, ok. In Poland not that much, so I guess I didn't notice the context.

Not to metion pedantic teachers who will insist on circles (as close as possible) and mark blobs as wrong.

They are not pedantic, they are sick and should not be close to any children.

 

[fresh_42]

Well we can’t all be going around reading set theory books for fun.

I have a book titled "Hundert Jahre Mengenlehre" (Hundred Years Set Theory) by Herbert Meschkowski. It is a small paperback and is intended to be fun, and reading it was! It contains examples as Hilbert's hotel, Peano curves, and a lot more.

 

[Muu9]

Well we can’t all be going around reading set theory books for fun.

Nah. I shouldn’t talk. I read the weirdest things. Quite recently a book about infant gymnastics and I have no children.

What's infant gymnastics? How does an infant who can't walk to gymnastics? What's the name of the book?

 

[TensorCalculus]

Venn diagrams are a great way to show overlapping sets visually and understandably! Even a 7 year old kid can understand a Venn diagram, though the words "set theory" and all of those set symbols might scare them off :)

My objection was not that they are taught, but that so much time is spent on them. When you tell the idea, and show an example to someone, a light bulb will light in there head and that's it. No need for dozens of lessions and hundreds of trivial exercises. Not to metion pedantic teachers who will insist on circles (as close as possible) and mark blobs as wrong.

I actually agree with this so much. I remember losing a handful of marks on a test because my venn diagram used blobs instead of circles (because... well they were circles but then I got a few of the categories wrong by making dumb mistakes but instead of moving the words I just changed the shape of the circles because I'm lazy like that) and apparently my excuse "but sir, they're still sorted correctly" wasn't valid. Oh well.

Well we can’t all be going around reading set theory books for fun.

Hey, I did that! Year 8 me had way too much free time, seriously...

 

[sbrothy]

What's infant gymnastics? How does an infant who can't walk to gymnastics? What's the name of the book?

I'm not a native English speaker so I can well imagine what Olympic pictures that conjured in your mind. What I meant was "baby gymnastics" or "toddler gymnastics" where a mum trains her infant child playing patty cake or moving their limbs to train muscles. We have these public "Take a book, leave a book" things around the city and sometimes I just take a bunch at random at end up with the weirdest things!

With a little imagination I can see how it might sound but I'm not a weirdo!

 

[sbrothy]

Also, people in this city, Odense, Denmark, call me simply "book" because I tend to walk around reading (sometimes even bicycling), with all the slapstick consequences that may entail. Random people approach me on the street with books they think I might enjoy.

EDIT: Which kinda puzzles me because noone thinks it's strange to walk around reading on your phone. Go figure.

EDIT2: So I guess I'm somewhat of a weirdo after all!

 

[fresh_42]

Which kinda puzzles me because noone thinks it's strange to walk around reading on your phone. Go figure.

 

[TensorCalculus]

Also, people in this city, Odense, Denmark, call me simply "book" because I tend to walk around reading (sometimes even bicycling), with all the slapstick consequences that may entail. Random people approach me on the street with books they think I might enjoy.

EDIT: Which kinda puzzles me because noone thinks it's strange to walk around reading on your phone. Go figure.

EDIT2: So I guess I'm somewhat of a weirdo after all!

I used to do that until people started commenting on what book I was reading and then subsequently asking my age because I didn't seem of the age to be reading the books... and then yeah I decided that maybe just reading on the bus to and from school (which is 1 hour one way) and just before bed is enough... saves me some embarrassment sometimes and I dont accidentally end up walking into people/things and also almost get run over by cars of which there are many in Cambridge city more than I should

 

[sbrothy]

Also, people in this city, Odense, Denmark, call me simply "book" because I tend to walk around reading (sometimes even bicycling), with all the slapstick consequences that may entail. Random people approach me on the street with books they think I might enjoy.

EDIT: Which kinda puzzles me because noone thinks it's strange to walk around reading on your phone. Go figure.

EDIT2: So I guess I'm somewhat of a weirdo after all!

I used to do that until people started commenting on what book I was reading and then subsequently asking my age because I didn't seem of the age to be reading the books... and then yeah I decided that maybe just reading on the bus to and from school (which is 1 hour one way) and just before bed is enough... saves me some embarrassment sometimes and I dont accidentally end up walking into people/things and also almost get run over by cars of which there are many in Cambridge city more than I should

Sinde the thread seems to have come to an end I can’t be accused of hijacking it when I tell you this (and only god knows why I do cause it’s embarrassing although also funny. YMMV):

When I said “slapstick consequences” I meant it quite literally. I can’t count the number of times I walked into street lamps and other permanent fixtures. One time stands out:

Maybe you know those ads standing on springs outside supermarkets and the like. I think it’s so they can bend in strong wind so they don’t get pushed around. I once walked straight into one of those and naively thought I could roll over “Jackie Chan”-style. Instead I got a hands-on Newtonian lesson and got shot back several meters! All traffic, cars included, came to a halt as they waited to see if I was OK. When I got up and it was obvious I was, people exited their cars and started clapping! I had to bow gracefully to be a good sport.

Talk about embarraasing!

 

[WWGD]

Three? Were’s the third? But that’s Swedish. Swedes don’t have the Æ. They use ä.

(Couldn’t find umlaut on my phone.)

Need to crack some eggs to make an umlaut.