Series of GR questions about universe expansion

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The discussion centers on the relationship between space, matter, and the expansion of the universe. It posits that if the universe originated from a singularity, the matter must influence the expansion of space. However, it is clarified that the universe is not expanding into anything, and the expansion is a result of gravitational dynamics rather than a force pushing against walls of space. The conversation also touches on the average movement of matter with the expansion and suggests visualizing it as increasing distances between particles rather than a physical expansion of spacetime. The exact rate of spacetime expansion remains a popular query among participants.
lobro2002
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The relationship between space (or spacetime) and matter is giving me some trouble. If the universe was created (all its matter) in a planktime explosion then the force of said matter must be driving the expansion of space itself. I view the matter as pressing against the walls of space and exerting force on them, thusly driving its expansion. Or does space expand without the aid of the matter contained in it? At what rate is spacetime expanding relative to the the matter contained inside? I can't imagine any matter could move faster than this initial spatial expansion. How could matter exist outside of spacetime?

I'll save my questions about matter on larger scales (galaxies) moving faster than the speed of light relative to one another for later; if someone can answer the exact rate of expansion of spacetime for me.
 
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lobro2002 said:
The relationship between space (or spacetime) and matter is giving me some trouble. If the universe was created (all its matter) in a planktime explosion then the force of said matter must be driving the expansion of space itself.

It's not an explosion.

The way that you start thinking about cosmology is to start with the assumptions of isotropic and homogenity. What that means is that any part of the universe is going to be the same as any other part of the universe.

Once you start with that assumption and you run the numbers, you find out that the universe can't be static for very long. Either the entire universe is expanding or the entire universe is contracting. It happens to be expanding.

If you imagine the universe expanding into something, then it's going to get confusing very quickly.

I'll save my questions about matter on larger scales (galaxies) moving faster than the speed of light relative to one another for later; if someone can answer the exact rate of expansion of spacetime for me.

I don't like thinking in terms of a "rubber sheet" in which "space time" expands. I think it's more confusing than anything else.
 
lobro2002 said:
Or does space expand without the aid of the matter contained in it?

No, the expansion and matter content are related through the equations governing gravity. If the matter is "normal stuff" (not dark energy or anything like that) then the gravitational pull of the matter causes the expansion to slow down.
lobro2002 said:
At what rate is spacetime expanding relative to the the matter contained inside?
Matter is on average moving along with the expansion. It may be easier for you to visualize this if you stop thinking about spacetime as a thing of it's own, and just think abstractly about the distances between dust particles. Don't think that there's something which is expanding, but instead just say that the distances are growing.
lobro2002 said:
I can't imagine any matter could move faster than this initial spatial expansion. How could matter exist outside of spacetime?

That would indeed not make much sense.

lobro2002 said:
I'll save my questions about matter on larger scales (galaxies) moving faster than the speed of light relative to one another for later; if someone can answer the exact rate of expansion of spacetime for me.
It might be prudent to use the search tool in the forums for this one; this question is quite popular.
 
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