Seriously How do you bio people memorize so much info?

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Memorizing complex biochemical pathways like glycolysis, gluconeogenesis, and the TCA cycle can be overwhelming, especially before exams. Understanding the core concepts and major players in these pathways is more effective than rote memorization. Utilizing mnemonic devices can aid in recalling information, but consistent practice and review are essential. The discussion highlights the challenge of balancing memorization with comprehension, particularly for students who may not have a biology background. Overall, mastering biochemistry often requires a combination of memorization and a deep understanding of the material.
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Wow trying to learn glycolysis, gluconeogenesis, and the TCA cycle the night before the biochem exam sucks. How on Earth can anyone memorize this much material? Seriously though, does anyone have any hints on how to memorize this stuff?
 
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I'll let you in a secret.. you can't really memorize it all
 
gravenewworld said:
Wow trying to learn glycolysis, gluconeogenesis, and the TCA cycle the night before the biochem exam sucks. How on Earth can anyone memorize this much material? Seriously though, does anyone have any hints on how to memorize this stuff?
Yeah, and still physicists think they rule the world.. they don't understand the elegance of cells. Also here there is order in the chaos and biologists are trying to make sense of it.

As for memorizing it all, you should understand the underlying concepts and the major players of the different pathways.

Can you motivate whether it is good or bad to eat a high-sugar candy bar some time before starting an athletic exercise?
 
Monique said:
Yeah, and still physicists think they rule the world.. they don't understand the elegance of cells. Also here there is order in the chaos and biologists are trying to make sense of it.

As for memorizing it all, you should understand the underlying concepts and the major players of the different pathways.

Can you motivate whether it is good or bad to eat a high-sugar candy bar some time before starting an athletic exercise?

Physicists don't rule the world? Thats news for me.. :eek:
 
Can you motivate whether it is good or bad to eat a high-sugar candy bar some time before starting an athletic exercise?



what kind of sugar would the candy bar be made up of ? sucrose? high fructose corn syrup?
 
The sugar glucose.
 
I suppose it wouldn't hurt since glucose under anaerobic conditions would form 2 molecules of pyruvate for 1 glucose through glycolysis no?

Oh btw, what does it imply when an enzyme ends in thase vs. thetase?
 
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gravenewworld said:
Wow trying to learn glycolysis, gluconeogenesis, and the TCA cycle the night before the biochem exam sucks. How on Earth can anyone memorize this much material? Seriously though, does anyone have any hints on how to memorize this stuff?

First, you'll never memorize it all the night before the exam. It's no different than organic chemistry where you need to learn all the intermediates getting from a starting compound to a final product. Actually, it IS organic chemistry. Some teachers will expect you to write the whole pathway down from memory, but understanding the steps along the way will help yo remember all of them. Take note of when energy is added (i.e., formation of bonds, addition of a phosphate group) and when energy is released (i.e., breaking bonds, formation of ATP from the freed phosphate). You can't learn biology in a vacuum from the other sciences.
 
gravenewworld said:
I suppose it wouldn't hurt since glucose under anaerobic conditions would form 2 molecules of pyruvate for 1 glucose through glycolysis no?

Oh btw, what does it imply when an enzyme ends in thetase vs. thatase?

The ending -ase tells you it is an enzyme. The rest of the word tells you what it is doing. Synthases make or add something (think: synthesize). Dehydrogenases remove hydrogen, usually two at a time, which typically means a double bond will form between the two carbons the hydrogens were previously attached to. The naming is pretty helpful.
 
  • #10
Im doing pretty good so far. Thanks a lot.
 
  • #11
If you have trouble remembering some things...happens to me in the middle of physics tests...talk about irritating!...you could try remembering the core concept and what springs from that concept. Nuemonic (I think the spelling is off, but Moonbear might fix it the way she did ammonia. :blushing:) devices.

Monique said:
Yeah, and physicists still think they rule the world..they don't understand the elegance of cells. Also here there is an order in the chaos and biologists are trying to make sense of it.

I want to rule the world too... :bugeye:

Gravenewworld said:
How on Earth can anyone memorize this much material?

Lots of practice, my friend. Lots of practice. :wink:
 
  • #12
misskitty said:
If you have trouble remembering some things...happens to me in the middle of physics tests...talk about irritating!...you could try remembering the core concept and what springs from that concept. Nuemonic (I think the spelling is off, but Moonbear might fix it the way she did ammonia. :blushing:) devices.

As long as you don't mind me correcting your spelling, I'm happy to do so :wink: (I try not to offend people by correcting their spelling unless it's critical to meaning). They are mnemonic devices (and here's one to help remember that word: it starts with "m" for memory, even though you don't pronounce the m).
 
  • #13
I absolutely do not mind you correcting my spelling. :biggrin: You can't learn anything without making mistakes first! :smile:
 
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  • #14
wow so i bombed that test, the worst i have ever done in my life. i studied all the wrong things. god i absolutely loathe biochem, it seems the only way that you can pass is if you have the ability to memorize a whole phonebook.
 
  • #15
heh.. what were the questions?
 
  • #16
Graven, we might be able to help you if you let us know what the questions were. You told us your test was on biochem, but specifically what was it would studied?

I'm sorry you did so poorly on your test sweetie. :frown:
 
  • #17
The test was on glycolysis, gluconeogenesis, and the TCA cycle.

One question had to do with Galactose and how it can enter into the glycolysis pathway as glucose-6-phosphate. We had to start with galactose, describe how galactose turns into glucose-6-phophate (i.e. list all the steps and intermediates along with the enzymes that catalyze the pathways with products given off etc.) I remember glancing over this, but I did not memorize this process. The only thing I thought I should memorize was that Galactose can enter glycolysis as glucose-6-phosphate and fructose can enter as glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate.

The other question I bombed was on the regulation of glycolysis and gluconeogenesis and how they are reciprocally regulated. We had to pretty much list all the inhibitors and stimulators of phosphofructokinase and pyruvate kinase (for glycolysis) and for pyruvate carboxylase, phosphoenol pyruvate carboykinase, and fuctrose 1,6 bisphosphatase(for gluconeogensis).

This was on top of listing bascially every enzyme, molecular structure, intermediate names, pathways, products, and cofactors, for all of glycolysis, gluconeogenesis, and the TCA cycle. (Which I got). There were also questions on the specifics of some of the pathway rxns like on thioester intermediates for the mechanism of glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate dehydrogenase enzyme.

The other question that was a pain was on the flow of carbon atoms. We were given molecules at some point in glycolysis that had a labled Carbon 14 atom and we would find out where the carbon atom would end up at another point in the TCA cycle. ( I think I got this one though).

The concepts on the test weren't hard at all, the only reason the test was hard was becauset he amount of information that one would have to memorize for this test. I knew exactly what the questions were talking about and where I could find the answer to the questions in the text, but memorizing all that without getting it mixed up is next to impossible. I am also chem. major not bio, so I haven't seen any of this before like all the bio majors in the class. It doesn't really matter though, I got a 99% on the test that dealt with proteins and chemical kinetics so if I get a 50 on this test I can still get a 75 avg. If i do semi decent on the final then I can at least get a B. Biochem is definitely not my thing.
 
  • #18
I understand. I have had similar problems myself. Did you receive the test back today as well or are you still waiting for it? The only thing you can really do now is to prevent it from happening again. Double checking what material is on the exam before you invest all that time the way you did should help. You might find that reading through the chapter on your own and taking notes and doing the problems, then going to class and taking good notes, and then really reviewing might help reinforce your memory because of how often you are studying the material.

I hope that helps a little. :smile:

Kitty
 
  • #19
I just took it at 6pm today
 
  • #20
Then the answer would be a largely resounding 'No'. :wink:
 
  • #21
I'm in organic right now. Some people have claimed that you can 'figure things out' without having to memorize a bunch of different reactions, but I don't see it. There are trends, and some trivial reactions are pretty obvious, but a large percentage simply has to be memorized.

Edit: This is part of the reason why I dislike organic. In the real world, I can look up any reaction I want. Why should I have to memorize 100s of different mechanisms, etc. that tell me next to nothing about a reaction which I have not encountered before. I have a theory that organic is just a weed out course for people who thinking about med school, since you have to do a similar thing in memorizing a large amount of information.
 
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  • #22
I thought you would like to know, that in the real world, that's all chemists do is look up reactions. They don't memorize anything. I have an internship at a pharmaceutical company, and whenever we need a reaction we just type what we want into the computer, search scifinder, and find a reaction that works.
 
  • #23
It's hazing for biochemists. :biggrin: Everyone has to memorize those pathways in biochemistry. I have yet to figure out a good purpose for doing so, so really can only attribute it to "they had to do it, so we had to do it, so you have to do it." The only time I need to know those pathways nowadays is to answer student questions about it. I discovered that biochemistry was much easier to learn once I realized there isn't actually any chemistry in it once you get past memorizing glycolysis and TCA cycle. The only people who did well in biochemistry when I took it as an undergrad were the biochemistry grad students in the course (they only offered one class and the undergrads and grad students all got tossed into the same lecture). Don't worry, if you go on to grad school, you'll get a second crack at it. The world's biggest waste of time in grad school is that every program seems to require you to take biochemistry again, even if you took it as an undergrad, and the class always includes the same material as the undergrad courses. It's still the same material as when I took the class *mumbles* almost 15[/size] years ago.
 
  • #24
Amusing to know that hazing extends to other aspects of life too. At least this is much less violent and not stitches are require! :wink:

Moonbear has a point. It is just a right of passage mostly and it is an effective way to pound the information into your brain. My algebra teacher (being I am only a junior in high school! :blushing:)was complaining about how easy it is for us to just plug a logarithm into our calculators while she had a million sheets of paper, similar to the mulitplication table they give kids in the 2nd grade, except it had a ton of logarithms on it. She looked at us and laughed; "you have no idea how ridiculously easy you guys have it!"

She's got a point though. I'm sure sooner or later things will get easier for you Graven. If they don't get easier then hopefully they will level off to a consistant level of difficulty. It does seema ascinine to a point, making you repeat biochem if you already took it as an undergrad. I can understand the reasoning behind it though.
 
  • #25
gravenewworld said:
I thought you would like to know, that in the real world, that's all chemists do is look up reactions.
Well, you do have to understand the basics of what happens and how it is controlled. I think it is unfair though to expect students to learn all the reaction by head. My biochem exam was open-book and the exam was of insight-questions where you had to know what was going on and where to look it up.

I mentioned one of the questions on the exam that I still remember: is it good to eat sugar candy bars in front of an athetic exercise. You have to know what happens in the body and it actually is quite simple. You eat sugar, your blood sugar level rises. You think that that is good, since you need sugar for exercise. But as your blood sugar rises, your body starts to produce insulin to bring it down to normal levels. During excersise you need to get sugar out of your cells, so you produce glucagon. Hormones circulate in your body and it takes time to get rid of them. So you conclude that you can better not eat food that releases sugar fast into your bloodstream, but rather ones that release it slowly.

In fact I got 10/10 on my biochem exam, I think there were only 5 out of 20 that passed the test :eek: :biggrin:
 
  • #26
Look at it this way, you have to be exposed to all the different aspects of biology, chemistry, physics, mathematics, etc in order to find out what you like and hopefully are good at. Biology does encompass some considerable rote memorization but it can eventually pay off if you follow that field, even as a hobby. I still remember many of the scientific names of the plants and animals I studied in plant sytematics or ichthyology. It's kinda fun to be able to spout those off when you encounter the same species years later.

I will say that the process of cramming that info into your head and then dumping it out on test day is tedious and difficult. Also it unfortunately can be used by unscrupulous teachers who won't take the time to formulate a more thoughtful question, although in some cases the only way to find out if you studied the work is by spitting it back out verbatim. One you target in on a field you enjoy and wish to pursue, the info just seems to accumulate in your head and you can pull it out whenever you like. Repetition can be a great tool for getting the basics of a science across and then you are able to apply what you know in real-world research/applications.
 
  • #27
It could be worse. You could have gotten a zero on the test, but you didn't you passed it. By the skin of your teeth, but you'll be prepared for next time. :smile:
 
  • #28
I bought a used biology text last week on Amazon.com. Amazing how a $130 textbook can drop to about ten bucks when a new edition is released. It's a gorgeous book - beautifully illustrated and it weighs about 87 lbs. :biggrin:

It's a subject I know very little about so I thought I would just pick up something to begin reading and learning a little bit. (I have to take a biology course at some point for my major).

I can't imagine learning all the stuff in that book. There's just so much! Yikes!

I'll be taking "Bonehead Biology", thank you very much! :smile:
 
  • #29
Math Is Hard said:
It's a gorgeous book - beautifully illustrated and it weighs about 87 lbs. :biggrin:

The other good use for biology textbooks. :biggrin: No flabby arms for us bio majors! :smile:
 
  • #30
so-crates said:
I'm in organic right now. Some people have claimed that you can 'figure things out' without having to memorize a bunch of different reactions, but I don't see it. There are trends, and some trivial reactions are pretty obvious, but a large percentage simply has to be memorized.

Edit: This is part of the reason why I dislike organic. In the real world, I can look up any reaction I want. Why should I have to memorize 100s of different mechanisms, etc. that tell me next to nothing about a reaction which I have not encountered before. I have a theory that organic is just a weed out course for people who thinking about med school, since you have to do a similar thing in memorizing a large amount of information.

Despite what the pharmaceutical intern said, you can't always just look up a mechanism for any given reaction, especially for new reactions. Even a simple reaction like a Wittig reaction has some three or four competing mechanisms, all with their own experimental evidence. It takes years of studying and memorizing various mechanistic pathways in order to understand and interpret the results of new reactions. Various patterns emerge and it's far easier to pick up, say, the glycolytic pathway if you've had good training with mechanisms. In fact, I took biochem after a lot of organic coursework and much of the glycolytic pathway, pentose phosphate pathway, fatty acid metabolism, hormone synthesis, etc. was highly intuitive to me by the time I took it.
 
  • #31
Every biology course I have encountered required memorization. Biochem in particular, seemed to have the market cornered on volume of things to memorize. (With lots of kicking and raving, I managed to survive two grad biochem classes). While preparing for those exams, on more than one occasion I recall waking in a sweat, having nightmares about pathways that were so jumbled they made absolutely no sense
There are always going to be courses that are less favored than others. My successful approach has been to just hang on and try your best, one exam at a time.

Now physics, math and engineering were a breath of fresh air for me. They all stressed problem solving (no memorizing yea! :smile: )
If you practised solving enough problems, you can do great not only on exams, but after college too.

A doctor friend of mine expressed a similar experience in Med School, a lot of boring memorization. His BS was in physics and agreed that physics and math emphasize problem solving. He went on to point out, that "memorization" is a lower form of learning. :biggrin: At best you do a memory dump at exam time.. How much will you actually recall 1 or 5 years from now?? Whereas "problem solving" is a thought process. Once you cultivate that skill, you can use it again and again throughout your life.
 
  • #32
There's a good point there Ouabache. I have found that if you go into a test and don't second guess yourself and don't try to gage how you will do, but just go in and take the test you get less stressed out so it is easier to take the test. Less stress + prepared = better test grade.

At least for me that is. :smile:
 
  • #33
I like how you used word 'thought process'. I think when you do by learning you develop synapses that will be initiated the next time a similar problem with similar initial conditions will arise. Particularly this could be one of those things that let's you see analogous shapes, forms, problems, sounds, etc. Things that computers arent able to solve (particularly a geometric letters that inter-cross and wiggle)
 
  • #34
Ouabache said:
Now physics, math and engineering were a breath of fresh air for me. They all stressed problem solving (no memorizing yea! :smile: )
Don't you have to study formulas? I once did rheology and it involved stuying these very complex formulas and relating them all to each other. Pathways can be very logical if you look at the structures of molecules, they do not magically appear out of nowhere.

If you only do memorization in biochem, you are doing something wrong.
 
  • #35
For me the problem seems to be that the glycosic, TCA cycles and other biochem-stuff are just way too long and complicated to be 'reasoned' all the way through. There are too many directions you could go in any given point in the cycles just to rely on reason. But if you have some memorized focal points on the way, then you can (maybe) fill in the gaps with reason. But I'm speaking with only an organic chemistry course and some self studies in molecular biology under my belt, so I don't know.

Anyway, good to hear I'm not the only one with headaches over this. :smile:
 
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  • #36
I'm sure this next chapter on oxidative phosphorylation is going to be even more dandy with even more memorization required.
 
  • #37
Ouabache said:
Every biology course I have encountered required memorization. Biochem in particular, seemed to have the market cornered on volume of things to memorize. (With lots of kicking and raving, I managed to survive two grad biochem classes). While preparing for those exams, on more than one occasion I recall waking in a sweat, having nightmares about pathways that were so jumbled they made absolutely no sense
Heh heh. I think there's a general problem in the way biochem is taught. At the undergrad level, yeah, it can seem like a lot of memorization when you don't yet have the background to understand the chemistry of it. But it's frustrating that they continue to teach it the same way at the graduate level, when you should be able to expect students to have more background and the ability to understand that there is some method to the madness. Afterall, somebody, or some group of people, worked out how all these pathways work, so there must be a way to understand it without rote memorization. Unfortunately, my experiences with biochem profs has been less than satisfactory as well. It seems like they all teach it the same way; they just don't seem to know any other way. Afterall, I had been memorizing glycolysis and gluconeogenesis pathways since high school freshman biology. Surely by the graduate level there is something more interesting to be taught and learned about it. When I was a post-doc, I decided to sit through a grad level biochem class at that university as well, thinking that seeing how it's taught by faculty at a different university might give me better ideas about it, but it was still the same thing. Can't we at least assume that by the time someone gets to graduate school in biochemistry that they know what the 20 amino acids are and the abbreviations used for them, what a purine and pyrimidine are, the difference between DNA and RNA, the different types of RNA, that DNA is transcribed to RNA and RNA is translated to protein, etc? But yet they go through all of this over and over again as if it's brand new material. It wasn't even new in college Freshman bio, but at least there you can assume some students came from high schools where the science curriculum may have been weak. By the time you're in grad school, you already know "what" happens, you want to know "how and why" does it happen.

A doctor friend of mine expressed a similar experience in Med School, a lot of boring memorization. His BS was in physics and agreed that physics and math emphasize problem solving. He went on to point out, that "memorization" is a lower form of learning.
Unfortunately, it shouldn't be memorization, but that's what the med students make of it. We have a course here that is required both for med students and some of our grad students. It's absolutely amazing how different the two groups' approach to learning is in that course. For the med students, they need a C to pass the course, and for grad students, they need a B to pass, so the standards are already different. But, the med students are content with just a C. They memorize just as much as they need to in order to get a C and are happy with that. The grad students want to understand the material, and whatever their grade, they strive to learn as much as they can of it. There's a lab component, and you should hear the grad students complain when they get stuck with a med student in their lab group.

But there is a lot more that does need to be memorized in your basic biology courses than in your basic physics courses. You also jump right into material that isn't something you've watched happen your whole life. Think about it. When you start out in biology, you learn all about what a cell is and a lot of things that go on inside that cell. You've never seen the inside of a cell growing up. When you start out in physics, you learn things like speed, velocity, acceleration, friction -- things you've experienced every time you've gotten in a car. The forces may be invisible, but you've felt them nonetheless. It makes it easier to understand through a bit of intuition about your experiences rather than something that's entirely new right from the start. How much more difficult would people perceive physics to be if you jumped straight into the material on quantum physics and relativity?
 
  • #38
Moonbear said:
Can't we at least assume that by the time someone gets to graduate school in biochemistry that they know what the 20 amino acids are and the abbreviations used for them, what a purine and pyrimidine are, the difference between DNA and RNA, the different types of RNA, that DNA is transcribed to RNA and RNA is translated to protein, etc? But yet they go through all of this over and over again as if it's brand new material.
Yes, that is my biggest irritation in gradschool too. They spend all their time on trivial stuff, and when it comes to some serious stuff it is skipped because it is too complicated or there is no more time

Today I attended a three hour lecture on B cell and allergy, part of a graduate course. The first hour was ok, where the synthesis of IgE was discussed and the two TH2 mechanisms introduced. But the rest was no more than introductory material (which already had been covered extensively in the preceding lectures) of what lymph nodes are, what the spleen is, how recombination takes place of the immunoglobulins. When we finally came to the relevant chapter of the book, all the time was up. Imagine my disappointment.
 
  • #39
I think that's the problem with these courses that are hybrids with 2 different fields. The first exam all the bio majors did horrible, we had to spend like 2-3 weeks going over acid base chemistry, equilibrium constants, the hendersen hasselbach eq. etc., all high school chem and gen. chem stuff. Now the course has turned to more bio, so all the chem majors sucked on this last test while I'm sure all the bio people aced it. The bio majors have been doing this stuff for 4 years, the last time I had bio was freshman year of high school.
 
  • #40
gravenewworld said:
I think that's the problem with these courses that are hybrids with 2 different fields. The first exam all the bio majors did horrible, we had to spend like 2-3 weeks going over acid base chemistry, equilibrium constants, the hendersen hasselbach eq. etc., all high school chem and gen. chem stuff. Now the course has turned to more bio, so all the chem majors sucked on this last test while I'm sure all the bio people aced it. The bio majors have been doing this stuff for 4 years, the last time I had bio was freshman year of high school.

I don't think that should have anything to do with it. The bio majors need to know that chemistry as well. If they don't know equilibrium constants and the Henderson-Hasselbach equation yet, they don't belong taking biochemistry. They should have covered it in both general biology and general chemistry before ever getting to a biochemistry class. That's one of those things that's redundant all over the curriculum (at least it's something that you'll use in "real life.")
 
  • #41
Monique said:
Yes, that is my biggest irritation in gradschool too. They spend all their time on trivial stuff, and when it comes to some serious stuff it is skipped because it is too complicated or there is no more time

Unfortunately, some of our faculty teach like that as well. We have a new course coordinator for one of our grad level classes, and she's doing her best to weed out those faculty and replace them with people who don't teach the same basic lecture in every class.

The students usually like the way I teach the grad level classes I teach because, while I do start out with some overview of stuff they already should know, I tell them I know most have seen it ad nauseum before and that's why I'm going to fly through it really quickly just to make sure everyone remembers it. I then let them know that if anyone in the class has not seen that material before, then they need to make an appointment with me to learn it (in other words, I want them to know it, but I'm not going to waste the time of the class re-teaching it to everyone). We then spend the rest of the class going into detail on one or two very recent journal articles. It takes a lot of time to prepare a meaningful class like that because I have to find articles that actually relate to the topic and that include experiments that do a good job of illustrating many concepts, but if I want students who are well-trained as scientists, that's time that's important to take.
 
  • #42
I really like your method of teaching, I think it is perfect. Basic slides are important for refreshing memory, but no time should be spend on them.

The current course has a very interesting teaching method. One day is a 3-hour lecture, at the end we get handed two articles after which two students are appointed to present the next day and the rest to prepare questions. The next day there is a total of 3 hours to discuss the material. This is repeated for 4 weeks. This way we learn what is going on at the research institutes, study recent literature, develop reading and presenting skills, learn how to be critical of articles, and learn to speak up in groups (there is not exam, students are judged on participation).
 
  • #43
Monique said:
Don't you have to study formulas? I once did rheology and it involved stuying these very complex formulas and relating them all to each other.
In physics and engineering, my courses approached formulas by deriving them from first principles.. That way if we needed one, we could derive as needed. At exam time, you often don't have time to derive formulas, however the professors knew that and most allowed students to bring a sheet of notes. If you practised solving enough problems, you remembered the ones you need..

Pathways can be very logical if you look at the structures of molecules, they do not magically appear out of nowhere.
If you only do memorization in biochem, you are doing something wrong.
You're right, and I actually enjoyed reading my biochem book (i believe we used Stryer), it was quite interesting. And I followed the logic of the pathways, molecular structures, binding affinities, stereochemistry, fun stuff!
I realized early on, there were subjects I excelled in and others that were not my strongest suit. Biochem was one of the later and understandably, organic chem was another. I am sure it was accelerated rate at which the information was presented, that hindered me (and the way my brain processes that material). My brain works with mathematical constructs much better.
 
  • #44
heheheh i love bio! :rolleyes:
you don't memorise all of it! omg that would be so bad!
i guess if you listen in class then you will remember it better and itll be easier when youre studying
i think its much easier to remember thing than to work things out, that's why i love bio!
:shy:
 
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