Show that (du/dv)t=T(dp/dT)v-p - please explain

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves demonstrating a relationship between specific heat capacities and thermodynamic potentials, specifically showing that (du/dv)T = T(dp/dT)v - p. The context is rooted in thermodynamics, utilizing Maxwell relations and differential forms of state functions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to manipulate the equation Tds = du + pdv to derive the desired relationship, expressing uncertainty about the validity of their method. They question the condition under which a specific term can be set to zero. Other participants suggest starting with a different substitution related to the differential of entropy and express similar concerns about eliminating certain terms in their own attempts.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing their approaches and questioning specific steps in their reasoning. There is no explicit consensus on the method to eliminate problematic terms, indicating a collaborative exploration of the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of homework guidelines, which may limit the extent of assistance they can provide to one another. There is an emphasis on understanding the relationships between different thermodynamic variables and the implications of Maxwell relations.

ConstantinL
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Homework Statement


Show that (du/dv)T = T(dp/dt)v - p

Homework Equations


Using Tds = du + pdv and a Maxwell relation

The Attempt at a Solution


I've solved the problem, but I'm not entirely sure my method is correct.

Tds = du + pdv ---> du = Tds - Pdv

- Using dF=(dF/dx)ydx +(dF/dy)xdy
du=(du/dT)v+(du/dv)Tdv

- Therefore Tds - Pdv = (du/dT)v+(du/dv)Tdv

- Divide by dv:
(du/dT)vdT/dv + (du/dv)T = T(ds/dv)T - p

Now, to get the right answer, this term:

(du/dT)vdT/dv

must equal zero, but I'm not sure why - please can somebody explain?


Then you simply insert Maxwell relation -(ds/dv)T = -(dp/dT)v
and rearrange to get the correct answer.

Many thanks for any help!
 
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You should have started out by substituting $$dS=\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial T}\right)_VdT+\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial V}\right)_TdV$$
 
Chestermiller said:
You should have started out by substituting $$dS=\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial T}\right)_VdT+\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial V}\right)_TdV$$

Thanks for your help. I still get to a similar problem unfortunately. I get to here:

(ds/dT)vdT/dv + (ds/dv)T = (du/dv)T1/T + p/T

How do I get ride of the (ds/dT)vdT/dv term?

Many thanks!
 
ConstantinL said:
Thanks for your help. I still get to a similar problem unfortunately. I get to here:

(ds/dT)vdT/dv + (ds/dv)T = (du/dv)T1/T + p/T

How do I get ride of the (ds/dT)vdT/dv term?

Many thanks!
T(ds/dT)vdT + T(ds/dv)TdV = (du/dv)TdV+(du/dT)VdT + pdV
Collect factors of dV and dT.
 

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