Simple digital Bandpass Filter confusions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the design and understanding of a digital bandpass filter, particularly in the context of filtering a signal with a unit impulse at a specific time. Participants explore the relationship between time-domain signals and frequency-domain filtering, as well as the implications of using single samples in filter design.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how a frequency-domain filter can effectively filter a time-domain signal, specifically a unit impulse at t=5.
  • Another participant suggests that filters operate in the frequency domain and proposes designing a sequential circuit to exclude unwanted samples instead of using a filter.
  • A different participant mentions the need to multiply signals in the frequency domain and then return to the time domain, proposing the use of z-transforms to represent the unit impulse.
  • Concerns are raised about the feasibility of determining frequency properties from a single sample, with a suggestion to generate multiple sine waves for a more effective filtering demonstration.
  • Participants discuss the potential of using MATLAB for modeling the filter and signal interactions, indicating it may be a helpful tool for understanding the concepts involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to filter the signal. There are multiple competing views regarding the effectiveness of using a single sample for frequency analysis and the proposed methods for demonstrating filtering.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding frequency properties from single samples and the complexity of designing filters based on such constraints. There is also mention of the need for further reading on Signals and Systems to clarify these concepts.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in digital signal processing, filter design, and the application of theoretical concepts in practical scenarios, particularly those looking to understand the relationship between time and frequency domains.

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Lets assume I have a signal that exists in time and it has an unit impulse at t=5, I only want to filter out that portion of the signal. So I plan to design a passband filter to filter the signal out at t=5.

This is where I get confused, my passband filter exist in frequency so how is that going to filter the signal out? I'm not sure what's the range for example 50 hz to 100 hz. If I want to have the filter exist at t = 4 through t=6 is it simply going to be 1/4 hz to 1/6 hz?

Assuming I get the range right, will my output after getting passed through the filter just be a unit impulse? Will it still exist at t=5? This isn't homework I'm just trying to understand so I can start designing.
 
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Filters work in the frequency domain, not the time domain. If you want to just leave out some samples, design a sequential circuit (finite state machine) that copies (passing through) all samples but the ones you don't want to.

Maybe if you shared more about what you want to achieve (we're pretty sure your signal doesn't contain only one sample at t=5) we could give you a better advice.
 
FailedLaunch said:
Filters work in the frequency domain, not the time domain. If you want to just leave out some samples, design a sequential circuit (finite state machine) that copies (passing through) all samples but the ones you don't want to.

Maybe if you shared more about what you want to achieve (we're pretty sure your signal doesn't contain only one sample at t=5) we could give you a better advice.

It has to be a filter, pretty much my goal is to demonstrate some form of filtering and demonstrate it in the real world. I can choose any signal I want, it's my choice and I have to build the physical circuit to prove the concept. I haven't taken Signals and Systems in years.

I've spent some time reading online and I'm kind of getting the idea that I need to multiply two signals in the frequency domain then go back to time domain. So in the case of the unit impulse at t=5, it'll become (in z-domain using z transforms) z^-5.

So couldn't I just use a 3 unit impulses in frequency domain (z), at z=4, z=5,z=6 for a filter? So that'll be derac(z-4)+derac(z-5)+derac(z-6) then go back to time. So my system can be described by this F(z) = z^-5 and G(z) = derac(z-4)+derac(z-5)+derac(z-6).

Using z transform properties of convolution I do the inverse z-transform{F(z)xG(z)}= f(t)*g(t) (convolution not multiplication) to get my filtered signal. Darn I made it too hard now.
 
Now you got completely lost in it :-p

  1. you can not determine frequency properties (sprectrum) from a single sample. You need more than only one lonely sample
  2. filter with "unit pulses at z=4,5,6" is pretty hopeless. You need to have a deeper look at Signals and Systems

As for your project, I think the easiest way would be to generate 2 sines with different frequencies (something like 10Hz and 30Hz - fairly apart, yet still close enough),add them, then do a simple low pass (or high pass depending on what you want to filter out), and have one of the sines on the output.

Instead of designing a circuit you can program it in a processor (or MATLAB) and then plot input and output signals.
 
Last edited:
FailedLaunch said:
Now you got completely lost in it :-p

  1. you can not determine frequency properties (sprectrum) from a single sample. You need more than only one lonely sample
  2. filter with "dirac at z=4,5,6" is pretty hopeless. You need to have a deeper look at Signals and Systems

As for your project, I think the easiest way would be to generate 2 sines with different frequencies (something like 10Hz and 30Hz - fairly apart, yet still close enough), then do a simple low pass (or high pass depending on what you want to filter out), and have one of the sines on the output.

I think I do need a lot more reading.
 
Actually, my advice about using Matlab is probably the best idea for you. You can model there whatever you want and see how it interacts and it will help you understand how it all plays together.
 
FailedLaunch said:
Actually, my advice about using Matlab is probably the best idea for you. You can model there whatever you want and see how it interacts and it will help you understand how it all plays together.

If I kind of get this right, your saying create this system: sin(2*pi*10hz) + sin(2*pi*30hz)*(some lowpass filter) = sin(2*pi*10hz) ?
 

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