So, can mathematics really be racist?

[qspeechc]

Either that, or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-racist_mathematics" has an aweful name. Although that article skips around actually saying that some teachers think mathematics can be racist, they'd rather rather couch it in the safe terms like "culture", "prejudice" etc. It seems to me like whining; whining that they can't teach or the students don't want to learn.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Insanity]

While I don't believe mathematics can be racist, I do believe that there is archeological evidence, not proof though, but evidence that supports ancient civilizations had scientific and mathematical knowledge beyond what modern researchers believe, or what to believe, they had.

 

[Pattonias]

I think it is mostly an attempt to bring social politics into a relatively controversy free area.
It would be best to ignore it. It seems though that their main point is more that the history of mathematics is biased more than its implementation today. I think this is an example of the overuse of the word "racist."
It would probably be more of a western bias in general, rather than an issue of race.

 

[Insanity]

I think it is mostly an attempt to bring social politics into a relatively controversy free area.
It would be best to ignore it. It seems though that their main point is more that the history of mathematics is biased more than its implementation today. I think this is an example of the overuse of the word "racist."
It would probably be more of a western bias in general, rather than an issue of race.

agreed.

 

[leroyjenkens]

Sounds like they're listing ways to avoid biases that don't exist.

 

[D H]

I think it is mostly an attempt to bring social politics into a relatively controversy free area.
It would be best to ignore it.

Ignore it at our peril. We all know about the antiscientific nonsense that comes from the fundamentalist right. All that ignoring this nonsense accomplished was to let the nonsense grow to the extent where a very significant portion of the US thinks evolution is false. "It's only a theory."

Unfortunately, antiscientific idiocy is also rampant on the far left. The article cited in the original post is the tip of the iceberg. Google the phrase "Newton's Principia Mathematica is a 'rape manual'". After that, think about this statement by Luce Irigaray:

Is e=mc2 a sexed equation?...Perhaps it is. Let us make the hypothesis that it is insofar as it privileges the speed of light over other speeds that are vitally necessary to us. What seems to me to indicate the possible sexed nature of the equation is not directly its uses by nuclear weapons, rather it is having privileged what goes the fastest...​

It seems though that their main point is more that the history of mathematics is biased more than its implementation today. I think this is an example of the overuse of the word "racist."

It seems that their main point (besides not having even the foggiest idea of how mathematics is taught) is that they would much rather have math and science teachers teach anything but math and science. Teaching multi-culturism would be particularly nice.

 

[leroyjenkens]

Is e=mc2 a sexed equation?...Perhaps it is. Let us make the hypothesis that it is insofar as it privileges the speed of light over other speeds that are vitally necessary to us. What seems to me to indicate the possible sexed nature of the equation is not directly its uses by nuclear weapons, rather it is having privileged what goes the fastest...

That reminds me of this guy who thinks the term "black hole" is racist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-akk3gog34&feature=related

 

[Pattonias]

Yes... Some forget that black is a color not a race. It should not be offensive to refer to someone as black as, that is the color of their skin, when making reference to their skin color. I don't take offense when someone says that I am white when referring to my skin color. (If you wanted to be technical about it I am light brown depending on my summer activities of course) I think the problem arises when someone refers to someone else by their skin color only as opposed to them as an individual.

One of my favorite lines from the Venture Brothers Cartoon series.

Villain: Oh, so you hunt African-American vampires?

Jefferson Twilight: Nooo, sometimes I hunt British vampires. They don't have African-Americans in England.

Villain: Oh, I guess that makes sense...

Jefferson Twilight: Look, I hunt black vampires, I don't know what the PC name for that is.

 

[G01]

Is e=mc2 a sexed equation?...Perhaps it is. Let us make the hypothesis that it is insofar as it privileges the speed of light over other speeds that are vitally necessary to us. What seems to me to indicate the possible sexed nature of the equation is not directly its uses by nuclear weapons, rather it is having privileged what goes the fastest...​

What?

 

[D H]

What?

I didn't say that. Luce Irigaray did. The same crowd that brings the claims that mathematics is plagued with Eurocentricisms also claims that science is sexist, that Principia is a rape manual, etc. Both the extreme right and extreme left have a good share of anti science loons.

 

[Pattonias]

I'll bring it up at the next Illuminati meeting. We shouldn't have all these underlying issues.

 

[Pengwuino]

When I read the article, I had to go look up what the term "anti-racism" meant. Apparently the definition of racism hasn't changed so this leads to the question: Has the definition of mathematics changed?

Then again, I was very VERY offended as a minority when I studied the divergence theorem.

This nonsense is obviously from people who's only mathematical education ended in junior high.

 

[Pattonias]

When I read the article, I had to go look up what the term "anti-racism" meant. Apparently the definition of racism hasn't changed so this leads to the question: Has the definition of mathematics changed?

Then again, I was very VERY offended as a minority when I studied the divergence theorem.

This nonsense is obviously from people who's only mathematical education ended in junior high.

Thank you for causing me to google "divergence theorem."

I think that they also only paid attention to the introduction to the concepts in the beginning of each chapter. You know, where they told us who came up with the concept of
"0" and division by sixty and whatnot.

 

[Tobias Funke]

To be fair, the wiki article does state that most proponents of so called anti-racist math don't claim that math is racist (what does that even mean?), but that a student's race may affect how he's (sexist grammar!) taught. All I can say is that most of my students are white and relatively well off, and it would be pretty hard to teach minorities any less than my students' previous schools have taught them.

 

[Pengwuino]

To be fair, the wiki article does state that most proponents of so called anti-racist math don't claim that math is racist (what does that even mean?), but that a student's race may affect how he's (sexist grammar!) taught. All I can say is that most of my students are white and relatively well off, and it would be pretty hard to teach minorities any less than my students' previous schools have taught them.

How do you even teach math differentially to a different race though? When math is explained to me, it's all in symbols and numbers. Do people go up to a rich white student and say "Imagine this function is like the path your golf ball takes at your country club" and to a poor black student and say "Imagine this function is how many kilograms of drugs enter your neighborhood as a function of t"? Then again, it's been years since I've had a math course that had any realistic connection with reality (and by that I mean a course where real life examples are necessary... high school math for example), so maybe I simply don't remember how math is taught to kids.

 

[DaveC426913]

Do people go up to a rich white student and say "Imagine this function is like the path your golf ball takes at your country club" and to a poor black student and say "Imagine this function is how many kilograms of drugs enter your neighborhood as a function of t"?

1] Newton's invention of calculus is a common reference in math. There may have been a similar invention in the East but it is not taught that way.

2] The common symbols of math are Greek.

I think that's what they're talking about.


I think the 'racism' label is inflammatory (maybe deliberately, maybe not). I think the more apporpraite word is Eurocentrism.

 

[Tobias Funke]

How do you even teach math differentially to a different race though?

I have no idea. I never said I agree with this racist math stuff, but any differences between white and minority students in any subject is due to the fact that 40 or so years isn't enough time to undo hundreds of years of systematic oppression. I'm not sure why math would be specifically targeted.

 

[Pengwuino]

1] Newton's invention of calculus is a common reference in math. There may have been a similar invention in the East but it is not taught that way.

2] The common symbols of math are Greek.

I think that's what they're talking about.

Was there a similar system in the East? Are there other, simpler or more useful mathematical systems in the non-western world? If so, that's quite interesting, I'd definitely like to look into that.

 

[Pengwuino]

I have no idea. I never said I agree with this racist math stuff, but any differences between white and minority students in any subject is due to the fact that 40 or so years isn't enough time to undo hundreds of years of systematic oppression. I'm not sure why math would be specifically targeted.

I don't think it has anything to do with the subjects. I think it's who teaches them and what are the characteristics of the system that does the teaching. I feel the difference between a poor minority enrolled school vs. a private school's results isn't the idea that math is any different between the two, it's that one school simply will have statistically better teachers who most likely have better teaching methods. Considering how rigid and controlled ciriculums here are by the government, I can't imagine any subject can have much varied content, let alone something so concrete as mathematics.

 

[D H]

To be fair, the wiki article does state that most proponents of so called anti-racist math don't claim that math is racist (what does that even mean?), but that a student's race may affect how he's (sexist grammar!) taught. All I can say is that most of my students are white and relatively well off, and it would be pretty hard to teach minorities any less than my students' previous schools have taught them.

Did you read the reference material? Math is racist because it was largely invented by white males. To make it non-racist you as a teacher need to

• Teach about the contributions of non-whites and females to mathematics,
• Do so in a balanced manner (i.e., a one hour presentation during the course of a year does not cut it), and
• Do this with your well-off white students, too. Do anything less and you are teaching your students to be racist.

The problem with this line of thinking: The scientific revolution happened in Europe, and nowhere else. The Indians most certainly did invent our number system, and that probably should be mentioned in elementary school teaching. India might well have been the seat of the scientific revolution if Indian society hadn't collapsed into chaos and they had removed all the religious mumbo-jumbo / numerological claptrap from their math and science. China might have been the seat of the scientific revolution if the Ming Dynasty hadn't turned its back on mathematics and science. The Islam world might have been the seat of the scientific revolution were it not for the fanatic aspects of that society that made the Islamic world regress. The Mayans' mathematics was solely motivated by religion, politics, and numerology. Technologically, they were stuck in the stone age.

Dumb luck and the politically incorrect fact that some aspects of European thought are superior let Europeans and no one else to get past the political, religious, and anti-scientific hurdles that got in the way of a scientific revolution.

I suppose there is an alternative. Strip mathematics teaching of all references to Pythagoras, Euclid, Newton, Leibniz, Pascal, Fermat, Euler, Lagrange, Laplace, Gauss, Hamilton, Cantor, ... Rename all the theorems of mathematics named after those white males into something innocuous. Make the subject as inhumane and dry and boring as possible.

 

[Moonbear]

Is "anti-racist mathematics" anything like ebonics was to English? Sure, mathematicians can be racist, as can any member of any profession, but I think it pretty much ends there.

More likely, school districts in cities and towns that have lower socio-economic residents who may be more likely to be minorities (years of oppression to catch up from) probably also can't afford to hire the best math teachers that the wealthy districts snatch up. So, those students probably don't do as well in math over the long-run, because they lack adequate teachers during their formative years.

 

[D H]

Is "anti-racist mathematics" anything like ebonics was to English?

In the sense that both are loony offshoots of postmodernism, you nailed it, Moonbear.

 

[Proton Soup]

i went to an integrated public school. we all had the same teachers. some did better than others. much of it comes down to attitude, and the values you are taught at home. one of the best quotes i ever heard on the subject (and i don't remember who for sure) is that "An education isn't something you're given, it's something you take." even in my own family, our parents gave me and my brother the same opportunities. but i was the only one that read the encyclopedias. he dropped out. and too bad, he would have been much better at math than i ever could have been.

that said, i think much of this "anti-racist" math is supposed to raise self-esteem in minorities and give them a better attitude about learning. if they can get results from this, then sure, go for it. on the other hand, if this turns out to just be way to get more money and it doesn't show results, then forget it. find another way to attack the problem. but to be honest, if the man in the White House can't inspire people to achieve, i don't know who or what can.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

At its base the idea that the manner in which mathematics is taught in western schools may favour students of certain cultural backgrounds has merit. It seems though that they have people co-opting the idea to pile it high with PC junk that has little to do with mathematical education. Personally I never learned much of anything about the history of mathematics in school. Math was just math.

 

[Redbelly98]

1] Newton's invention of calculus is a common reference in math. There may have been a similar invention in the East but it is not taught that way.

2] The common symbols of math are Greek.I think that's what they're talking about.

I would remind "them" that we prefer to use Arabic numerals over Roman, to dispute the claims of Eurocentrism. It was the Arabs** who invented the base-10 number system that we use:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal#History :

"While the mathematician Jamshīd al-Kāshī claimed to have discovered decimal fractions himself in the 15th century, J. Lennart Berggrenn notes that he was mistaken, as decimal fractions were first used five centuries before him by Arab mathematician Abu'l-Hasan al-Uqlidisi as early as the 10th century."​

**EDIT:

Er, this part of the Wiki article says that our number system was developed in India:

"The most commonly used system of numerals is known as Hindu-Arabic numerals, and two Indian mathematicians are credited with developing them. Aryabhatta of Kusumapura who lived during the 5th century developed the place value notation and Brahmagupta a century later introduced the symbol zero."​

Either way -- not from Europe.

 

[DaveC426913]

Either way -- not from Europe.

They were spurious examples; no truth to them. I'm sure there are those who could find valid examples.

I was simply pointing out to Pengweenie examples to answer his question. Read his post to see how he had trouble understanding how one could be "racist" in one's teachings.

 

[Galteeth]

How do you even teach math differentially to a different race though? When math is explained to me, it's all in symbols and numbers. Do people go up to a rich white student and say "Imagine this function is like the path your golf ball takes at your country club" and to a poor black student and say "Imagine this function is how many kilograms of drugs enter your neighborhood as a function of t"? Then again, it's been years since I've had a math course that had any realistic connection with reality (and by that I mean a course where real life examples are necessary... high school math for example), so maybe I simply don't remember how math is taught to kids.

http://www.stumbleupon.com/s/#2kEiPk/www.theonion.com/content/node/28768/

(When you see the onion screen, click "continue" to get to the article.)

 

[Galteeth]

Ignore it at our peril. We all know about the antiscientific nonsense that comes from the fundamentalist right. All that ignoring this nonsense accomplished was to let the nonsense grow to the extent where a very significant portion of the US thinks evolution is false. "It's only a theory."

Unfortunately, antiscientific idiocy is also rampant on the far left. The article cited in the original post is the tip of the iceberg. Google the phrase "Newton's Principia Mathematica is a 'rape manual'". After that, think about this statement by Luce Irigaray:

Is e=mc2 a sexed equation?...Perhaps it is. Let us make the hypothesis that it is insofar as it privileges the speed of light over other speeds that are vitally necessary to us. What seems to me to indicate the possible sexed nature of the equation is not directly its uses by nuclear weapons, rather it is having privileged what goes the fastest...​

It seems that their main point (besides not having even the foggiest idea of how mathematics is taught) is that they would much rather have math and science teachers teach anything but math and science. Teaching multi-culturism would be particularly nice.

"Google the phrase "Newton's Principia Mathematica is a 'rape manual'"


You will be seeing some strange advertisements!

 

[DaveC426913]

http://www.stumbleupon.com/s/#2kEiPk/www.theonion.com/content/node/28768/

(When you see the onion screen, click "continue" to get to the article.)

I don't suppose you could summarize or excerpt?

 

[Office_Shredder]

"Google the phrase "Newton's Principia Mathematica is a 'rape manual'"

Stuff like this is far less mainstream though. There tends to be a prevailing opinion that the "harder" a science is, the less the common person can question it. Probably because harder sciences tend to have more convincing and demonstrative experiments to back them up, and 2-3 times the history as biology etc.

EDIT: On that note, I googled it and when I clicked on the first link I got a "Firefox does not trust this page.. Are you sure you want to proceed?" warning. Obviously I chose not to

 

[Galteeth]

I don't suppose you could summarize or excerpt?

The onion is a parody newspaper. The article was a parody article about the surprising efficiency of inner city youths in use of the metric system. It was in reference to the comment about teaching mathematics differently by different use of examples.

 

[DaveC426913]

The onion is a parody newspaper. The article was a parody article about the surprising efficiency of inner city youths in use of the metric system. It was in reference to the comment about teaching mathematics differently by different use of examples.

Oh. I didn't realize it was 'The Onion'. The Onion is good parody stuff. All I saw was your 'stumbleupon' URL, which is ambiguous.

 

[muppet]

The quote about the principia being a "rape manual" I've heard attributed to Sandra Harding, the author of one of the references in the wiki article on anti-racist mathematics. Not sure why, radical feminism seems to be her thing.

Still, teaching theorems by famous female mathematicians would be one way to improve A-level standards- Noether's theorem, anybody?

 

[D H]

The quote about the principia being a "rape manual" I've heard attributed to Sandra Harding, the author of one of the references in the wiki article on anti-racist mathematics. Not sure why, radical feminism seems to be her thing.

She's the one!

Still, teaching theorems by famous female mathematicians would be one way to improve A-level standards- Noether's theorem, anybody?

People from many cultures and both genders are now making contributions to mathematics. Teaching these contributions first presents a basic problem: It misses the basics. How can one you learn Noether's theorem without learning Lagrangian mechanics first, and Newtonian mechanics and calculus before that?

Take this too far and nobody would be making contributions to mathematics because nobody would be learning mathematics. The foundations of math happened to have been created largely by white male Europeans, and there is no getting around that. We can't change the past.

 

[Pattonias]

If we try really hard, and protest enough, we can change the past to one that suits us the best...

 

[Galteeth]

The quote about the principia being a "rape manual" I've heard attributed to Sandra Harding, the author of one of the references in the wiki article on anti-racist mathematics. Not sure why, radical feminism seems to be her thing.

Still, teaching theorems by famous female mathematicians would be one way to improve A-level standards- Noether's theorem, anybody?

To be fair, it seems there might have been some context for the statement that would make it seem less ridiculous.

 

[Pattonias]

To be fair, it seems there might have been some context for the statement that would make it seem less ridiculous.

That would be some powerful context. I mean I can't even play devils advocate. I'm going to try to find wherever she wrote this, just to see.

 

[ideasrule]

<rant>Except in recent times, nearly all of mankind's great achievements--its inventions, its science, its politics, its art and literature--were made in Europe. If other people did anything significant, it didn't send shock waves around the world in the same way that Euclid or Newton did. Denying this by emphasizing the "achievements" of female, black, Native, Indian, or chimpanzee intellectuals isn't lying; it's worse than lying. It's no different from the selective use of facts that white supremacists exploit in proving their point. (If anti-racist math gets implemented, though, the white supremacists may have a valid point.)

Why did Europe rise to prominence in nearly every field whereas the rest of the world failed? That might be an interesting question for a historian, but it couldn't be less relevant to a math course. Maybe Europeans sucked the brains out of Africans, drank their blood, and got the nourishment that made their brains smarter. Maybe aliens came and told them the answers. Maybe they got help form the invisible pink unicorn. Whatever the case, it was Newton and Leibniz who developed calculus; it was Greece that gave us the foundations of mathematics. There's no denying that.</rant>

 

[DaveC426913]

<rant>Except in recent times, nearly all of mankind's great achievements--its inventions, its science, its politics, its art and literature--were made in Europe. If other people did anything significant, it didn't send shock waves around the world in the same way that Euclid or Newton did. Denying this by emphasizing the "achievements" of female, black, Native, Indian, or chimpanzee intellectuals isn't lying; it's worse than lying. It's no different from the selective use of facts that white supremacists exploit in proving their point. (If anti-racist math gets implemented, though, the white supremacists may have a valid point.)

Why did Europe rise to prominence in nearly every field whereas the rest of the world failed? That might be an interesting question for a historian, but it couldn't be less relevant to a math course. Maybe Europeans sucked the brains out of Africans, drank their blood, and got the nourishment that made their brains smarter. Maybe aliens came and told them the answers. Maybe they got help form the invisible pink unicorn. Whatever the case, it was Newton and Leibniz who developed calculus; it was Greece that gave us the foundations of mathematics. There's no denying that.</rant>

Did you just equate the significance of discoveries by females and blacks with those by chimpanzees?


: Takes three large steps away from ideasrule :

 

[D H]

Did you just equate the significance of discoveries by females and blacks with those by chimpanzees?

It was a stupid rant.
On the other hand, your statement was a blatant example of human supremacism.

Article on speciesism: http://www.richardryder.co.uk/speciesism.html

Web sites promoting great ape personhood: http://www.greatapeproject.org/en-US/oprojetogap/Missao, http://www.personhood.org/: Takes one small step away from DaveC :

 

[Proton Soup]

another question for you, why did Newton and leibniz discover calculus at the same time? this seems to happen fairly often, btw.

 

[Phrak]

Has anyone brought this up?; the desire by some to portray mathematics as racist is a racist desire.

This is so very much like the shrinks who found solace by labeling bullies to be low on self esteem, where the opposite were true. But this bit of common delusion sure boosts the self esteem of the bullied.

 

[Galteeth]

<rant>Except in recent times, nearly all of mankind's great achievements--its inventions, its science, its politics, its art and literature--were made in Europe. If other people did anything significant, it didn't send shock waves around the world in the same way that Euclid or Newton did. Denying this by emphasizing the "achievements" of female, black, Native, Indian, or chimpanzee intellectuals isn't lying; it's worse than lying. It's no different from the selective use of facts that white supremacists exploit in proving their point. (If anti-racist math gets implemented, though, the white supremacists may have a valid point.)

Why did Europe rise to prominence in nearly every field whereas the rest of the world failed? That might be an interesting question for a historian, but it couldn't be less relevant to a math course. Maybe Europeans sucked the brains out of Africans, drank their blood, and got the nourishment that made their brains smarter. Maybe aliens came and told them the answers. Maybe they got help form the invisible pink unicorn. Whatever the case, it was Newton and Leibniz who developed calculus; it was Greece that gave us the foundations of mathematics. There's no denying that.</rant>

ORLY?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

ORLY?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna

I was going to say. I was fairly certain that most of the foundation for advanced mathematics was developed outside of europe.

 

[D H]

ORLY?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna

Yeah, I mentioned Islam science and math back in post #20, as well as the Indians, the Chinese, and the Mayans. Each of these could have been the seat of the scientific revolution -- except of course they weren't.

I think a big part of the problem here comes from the completely different way in which math and science are taught versus the way the humanities are taught. The humanities have people read the writings of their esteemed scholars. How many of you have tried to read Principia? I've tried; it is torturous. Even Maxwell's papers are a bit verbose. They lacked the modern tools to represent mathematical expressions. Math and science are constantly reinventing and economizing their nomenclature. In comparison, there has been very little improvement in the basic representation scheme used in the humanities for since the invention of the alphabet 4000 years ago.

Here is the kind of nonsense al-Khwārizmī had to deal with to determine that 1 is one of the two roots to (10-x)^2=81x (from Muhammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī[/URL]):
[indent]If some one say: "You divide ten into two parts: multiply the one by itself; it will be equal to the other taken eighty-one times." Computation: You say, ten less thing, multiplied by itself, is a hundred plus a square less twenty things, and this is equal to eighty-one things. Separate the twenty things from a hundred and a square, and add them to eighty-one. It will then be a hundred plus a square, which is equal to a hundred and one roots. Halve the roots; the moiety is fifty and a half. Multiply this by itself, it is two thousand five hundred and fifty and a quarter. Subtract from this one hundred; the remainder is two thousand four hundred and fifty and a quarter. Extract the root from this; it is forty-nine and a half. Subtract this from the moiety of the roots, which is fifty and a half. There remains one, and this is one of the two parts.[/indent]We do not and should not teach students to solve problems in this manner. The screams of "Oh no! Not another word problem!" would take on an entirely new meaning. It might be a good idea to show kids how people used to solve problems. This will serve multiple purposes. It opens a path to counter the claims of Eurocentricism. It also let's kids know that the word problems they face aren't so bad after all.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Here is the kind of nonsense al-Khwārizmī had to deal with

Or number theory. Imagine the excitement when it was recognized that MMMMMMCDVII factored into LXXIII x LXXXIX.

 

[Galteeth]

Yeah, I mentioned Islam science and math back in post #20, as well as the Indians, the Chinese, and the Mayans. Each of these could have been the seat of the scientific revolution -- except of course they weren't.

I think a big part of the problem here comes from the completely different way in which math and science are taught versus the way the humanities are taught. The humanities have people read the writings of their esteemed scholars. How many of you have tried to read Principia? I've tried; it is torturous. Even Maxwell's papers are a bit verbose. They lacked the modern tools to represent mathematical expressions. Math and science are constantly reinventing and economizing their nomenclature. In comparison, there has been very little improvement in the basic representation scheme used in the humanities for since the invention of the alphabet 4000 years ago.

Here is the kind of nonsense al-Khwārizmī had to deal with to determine that 1 is one of the two roots to (10-x)^2=81x (from Muhammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī[/URL]):
[indent]If some one say: "You divide ten into two parts: multiply the one by itself; it will be equal to the other taken eighty-one times." Computation: You say, ten less thing, multiplied by itself, is a hundred plus a square less twenty things, and this is equal to eighty-one things. Separate the twenty things from a hundred and a square, and add them to eighty-one. It will then be a hundred plus a square, which is equal to a hundred and one roots. Halve the roots; the moiety is fifty and a half. Multiply this by itself, it is two thousand five hundred and fifty and a quarter. Subtract from this one hundred; the remainder is two thousand four hundred and fifty and a quarter. Extract the root from this; it is forty-nine and a half. Subtract this from the moiety of the roots, which is fifty and a half. There remains one, and this is one of the two parts.[/indent]


We do not and should not teach students to solve problems in this manner. The screams of "Oh no! Not another word problem!" would take on an entirely new meaning. It might be a good idea to show kids how people used to solve problems. This will serve multiple purposes. It opens a path to counter the claims of Eurocentricism. It also let's kids know that the word problems they face aren't so bad after all.[/QUOTE]

It's worth noting in the context of this discussion that al-Khwārizmī (a persian) and Al-Kindi (an arab) were principally responsible for the adoption of the Indian numeral system into the Islamic world, which lead ultimately to its adoption in Europe. This is the system of numerals that is still in use today, none of which were invented by europeans.

 

[Galteeth]

Yeah, I mentioned Islam science and math back in post #20, as well as the Indians, the Chinese, and the Mayans. Each of these could have been the seat of the scientific revolution -- except of course they weren't.

I think a big part of the problem here comes from the completely different way in which math and science are taught versus the way the humanities are taught. The humanities have people read the writings of their esteemed scholars. How many of you have tried to read Principia? I've tried; it is torturous. Even Maxwell's papers are a bit verbose. They lacked the modern tools to represent mathematical expressions. Math and science are constantly reinventing and economizing their nomenclature. In comparison, there has been very little improvement in the basic representation scheme used in the humanities for since the invention of the alphabet 4000 years ago.

Here is the kind of nonsense al-Khwārizmī had to deal with to determine that 1 is one of the two roots to (10-x)^2=81x (from Muhammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī[/URL]):
[indent]If some one say: "You divide ten into two parts: multiply the one by itself; it will be equal to the other taken eighty-one times." Computation: You say, ten less thing, multiplied by itself, is a hundred plus a square less twenty things, and this is equal to eighty-one things. Separate the twenty things from a hundred and a square, and add them to eighty-one. It will then be a hundred plus a square, which is equal to a hundred and one roots. Halve the roots; the moiety is fifty and a half. Multiply this by itself, it is two thousand five hundred and fifty and a quarter. Subtract from this one hundred; the remainder is two thousand four hundred and fifty and a quarter. Extract the root from this; it is forty-nine and a half. Subtract this from the moiety of the roots, which is fifty and a half. There remains one, and this is one of the two parts.[/indent]


We do not and should not teach students to solve problems in this manner. The screams of "Oh no! Not another word problem!" would take on an entirely new meaning. It might be a good idea to show kids how people used to solve problems. This will serve multiple purposes. It opens a path to counter the claims of Eurocentricism. It also let's kids know that the word problems they face aren't so bad after all.[/QUOTE]

The difference between these two is that while mathematical language seeks clarity of meaning, or in other words, restricting meaning so as to increase precision, the evolution of language has been the exact opposite.
In fact, one of the reasons english has become so dominant, besides the historical reasons, is its ability to continually expand its vocabulary and thus incorporate greater nuance. It could be said then that the goal of language evolution is not precision but range of expression. Paradoxically, a greater range of expression allows for greater specificity.

I do think the goal of post-modern speak is often to obscure rather then to clarify, but this does not mean that complex language is a negative thing.

 

[muppet]

The difference between these two is that while mathematical language seeks clarity of meaning, or in other words, restricting meaning so as to increase precision, the evolution of language has been the exact opposite.
In fact, one of the reasons english has become so dominant, besides the historical reasons, is its ability to continually expand its vocabulary and thus incorporate greater nuance. It could be said then that the goal of language evolution is not precision but range of expression. Paradoxically, a greater range of expression allows for greater specificity.

I do think the goal of post-modern speak is often to obscure rather then to clarify, but this does not mean that complex language is a negative thing.

As someone once observed:
"How can French be the language of science when it has no word for eighty?"