Solve Archimedes Problem: Find Crown's Density

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dipra Irham
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Archimedes
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The problem involves determining the density of a gold crown attributed to Archimedes, given its weight in air and when immersed in water. Participants are discussing the implications of weight versus mass and the appropriate units to use in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning the use of weight in kilograms instead of Newtons and discussing the implications of gravity on weight measurements. There are inquiries about why the equation is set up as Vp = 10 kg and the validity of the units used in the problem.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided clarifications regarding the terminology of weight and mass, suggesting that the original statement could be improved for accuracy. There is an exploration of how Archimedes might have conducted his measurements, with a focus on the historical context of the problem.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of the historical context in which Archimedes operated, including the absence of modern units like Newtons and the methods used for weighing objects at that time. This adds a layer of complexity to the understanding of the problem.

Dipra Irham
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
I have got a question in my physics book.The question goes like that:
(Let's suppose the weight of the gold crown of Archimedes is 10 kg in air and 9.4 kg when immersed in water.What is the density of the crown? )
The solution says:
If the volume of the crown is V and density is p then,
Vp=10 kg
Vp-(Vp of water)=9.4 kg
Vp of water = Vp - 9.4 kg= 0.6 kg
so, V = 0.6 kg / density of water
=0.6 kg÷10^3 kg/m^3= 0.6 X 10^ -3m^3
Therefore, p = 10 kg / V
= 10 kg/0.6 X 10^ -3m^3
=16666 Kg /m^3
my question is, why Vp =10 kg?(it should be Vp times acceleration due to gravity,since weight = mass X acceleration due to gravity)
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20180603_230146.jpg
    IMG_20180603_230146.jpg
    27.6 KB · Views: 604
Physics news on Phys.org
Dipra Irham said:
I have got a question in my physics book.The question goes like that:
(Let's suppose the weight of the gold crown of Archimedes is 10 kg in air and 9.4 kg when immersed in water.
Technically, the mass of the gold crown is 10 kg in air. The crown would have the same mass on the moon with its lower gravity, but its weight would be less. The proper unit of weight in this problem would be Nt (Newtons).

Immersing the crown in water wouldn't change its mass.
Dipra Irham said:
What is the density of the crown? )
The solution says:
If the volume of the crown is V and density is p then,
Vp=10 kg
Vp-(Vp of water)=9.4 kg
Vp of water = Vp - 9.4 kg= 0.6 kg
so, V = 0.6 kg / density of water
=0.6 kg÷10^3 kg/m^3= 0.6 X 10^ -3m^3
Therefore, p = 10 kg / V
= 10 kg/0.6 X 10^ -3m^3
=16666 Kg /m^3
my question is, why Vp =10 kg?(it should be Vp times acceleration due to gravity,since weight = mass X acceleration due to gravity)
The density here apparently is in units of ##\frac{\text{kg}}{m^3}##. Multiplying V and p results in units of kg. It's hard to tell what they're trying to say in this problem, as the units being used don't make sense.

BTW, the image you posted is too small to be readable, and part of it is in shadow, which makes it even less useful.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Dipra Irham
The only error I see is in this opening statement: "weight ... is 10 kg in air and 9.4 kg when immersed in water."
That can be corrected either by including the factor g: "10g kg in air and 9.4g kg when immersed in water"
or by changing "kg" to "kg-weight".
Either way, the first equation becomes Vρg=10g kg, but the g's immediately cancel to give Vρ=10 kg.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Dipra Irham
I would note that, in the time of Archimedes, Newtons were far in the future and so was the value of g. The "weighing" process was most likely conducted using an equal arms scale with an amount of gold equal to what was given to the craftsman in one pan and the crown in the other. In air they would balance, but with both pans immersed they would not if the crown were adulterated. In short it makes sense to imagine that Archimedes conducted what we now call a null measurement.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Dipra Irham
haruspex said:
The only error I see is in this opening statement: "weight ... is 10 kg in air and 9.4 kg when immersed in water."
That can be corrected either by including the factor g: "10g kg in air and 9.4g kg when immersed in water"
or by changing "kg" to "kg-weight".
Either way, the first equation becomes Vρg=10g kg, but the g's immediately cancel to give Vρ=10 kg.
Thanks for your help.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
733
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
7K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K