Solve V_0 & I_0 in Circuit w/ Nodal Analysis

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving for the voltages V_0 and currents I_0 in a given circuit using nodal analysis. Participants explore the implications of the circuit's configuration and the relationships between various node voltages and currents.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents an initial attempt at solving for V_0 and I_0, expressing currents in terms of node voltages and applying KCL at different nodes.
  • Another participant questions the presence of wires shorting V_1 and V_3, suggesting that this changes the effective diagram and may lead to different conclusions about the circuit's behavior.
  • A later reply asserts that if the wires are indeed present, the circuit theory indicates that I_3=0, V_0=0, and I_2=0, leading to a simplification of the circuit analysis.
  • Some participants discuss the necessity of introducing V_1, V_2, and V_3, with one suggesting they are only needed for node voltage analysis, while another confirms that they can be set to zero due to their connection to ground.
  • There is a calculation presented for I_0, confirming it as 3 A based on the established values of V_1 and V_2.
  • Participants explore the calculation of V_0 using KVL, with one concluding that V_0 equals zero, while another mentions arriving at the same conclusion by inspection.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of certain node voltages and the implications of the circuit's configuration. While some calculations lead to a consensus on I_0 being 3 A and V_0 being 0, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the overall approach and the role of the introduced variables.

Contextual Notes

There are discussions about the consistency of the circuit analysis based on the presence of shorting wires and the implications for the node voltages. The assumptions regarding the circuit's configuration and the definitions of the nodes are critical to the analysis but remain somewhat ambiguous.

VinnyCee
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Homework Statement



Using nodal analysis, find v_0 and I_0 in the circuit below.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/7325/chapter3problem301dy.jpg

Homework Equations



KVL, KCL, V = i R, Super-node

The Attempt at a Solution



So I added 3 current variables, 3 node markers (V_1\,-\,V_3), a super node, a ground node, and marked a KVL loop.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6940/chapter3problem30part26cn.jpg

V_0\,=\,V_3 <----- Right?

Now I express the currents:

I_0\,=\,\frac{V_1\,-\,V_2}{40\Omega}

I_1\,=\,\frac{100\,-\,V_1}{10\Omega}

I_2\,=\,\frac{4\,V_0\,-\,V_1}{20\Omega}

I_3\,=\,\frac{V_0}{80\Omega}

KCL at V_1:

I_0\,=\,I_1\,+\,I_2

\left(\frac{V_1\,-\,V_2}{40}\right)\,=\,\left(\frac{100\,-\,V_1}{10}\right)\,+\,\left(\frac{4\,V_3\,-\,V_2}{20}\right)

7\,V_1\,-\,V_2\,-\,8\,V_3\,=\,400KCL at super-node:

I_0\,+\,2\,I_0\,=\,I_3

3\,\left(\frac{V_1\,-\,V_2}{40}\right)\,-\,\left(\frac{V_0}{80}\right)\,=\,0

6\,V_1\,-\,6\,V_2\,-\,V_3\,=\,0KVL inside super-node:

V_3\,-\,V_2\,=\,120Now I put those 3 equations into a matrix and rref to get V_1\,-\,V_3.

\left[\begin{array}{cccc}0&amp;-1&amp;1&amp;120\\7&amp;-1&amp;-8&amp;400\\6&amp;-6&amp;-1&amp;0\end{array}\right]\,\,\longrightarrow\,\,\left[\begin{array}{cccc}1&amp;0&amp;0&amp;-1688\\0&amp;1&amp;0&amp; -1464\\0&amp;0&amp;1&amp;-1344\end{array}\right]

V_3\,=\,V_0\,=\,-1344\,V

But -1344 Volts seems too high (or low) doesn't it? Should I have also expressed the currents that I did not mark at the short wires between ground and V_1 and V_3? Maybe I should use KVL 1 loop instead of the super-node KVL expression?
 
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your diagram as it stand contains two wires that short out V1 and V3 making them trivial with respect to ground chosen..should they not be there?
 
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Nope, they are there.
 
in that case your (effective) diagram changes dramatically, i m not even sure whether it is consistent?...anyway, if it is consistent: your circuit theory then tells you: I3=0, V_0=0, I2=0, V1=V3=0 so can join them up and form a loop containing the 120V source and 40 ohm resistor..and I_0=3A

it is actually ok i think... consistency wise speaking
 
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So how would I go about getting a system of equations for V_1 thorugh V_3?
 
you want to find V_0 and I_0, why worry about v1, v2 and v3? they are introduced for node voltage analysis purposes only... but if you really want a "system" of equations: you have
V1=0, V3=0, V2 = -120

all w.r.t. the ground chosen
 
OIC, V_1 and V_3 are 0 becasue they are both connected to ground through the wires you were asking about.

So for I_0 we have

I_0\,=\,\frac{V_1\,-\,V_2}{40\Omega}\,=\,\frac{(0)\,-\,(-120\,V)}{40\Omega}\,=\,3\,A

Right?
 
yes. NB: but for this question, introducing V1-V3 are not necessary, just observe that those wires short out several components leading to a simpler circuit and solve by inspection or doing a simple KVL loop (in this case).
 
So, to get V_0, I do a KVL loop around the 80\Omega and 40\Omega and the 120 V source?

V_0\,+\,40\,I_0\,-\,120\,V\,=\,0\,\,\longrightarrow\,\,V_0\,=\,120\,-\,40(3)\,=\,0\,V

So V_0 is really zero?
 
  • #10
by the way, I got V0=0 by inspection. but what you have done is also correct. i guess showing that the circuit is consistent after all
 

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