Space, matter and physical models

AI Thread Summary
Physical models typically start with space, incorporating matter within it, but they encounter issues like infinite curvatures that hinder unification. An alternative approach suggests beginning with matter and deducing space from the relationships between matter units, raising questions about the nature of distance and time. The discussion highlights three perspectives on the relationship between spacetime and matter: space as the origin of matter, matter as the origin of space, and a more fundamental entity from which both derive. The idea of deriving space from matter is considered valid, emphasizing the importance of including time in any model. Resources like "On Space and Time" by Shahn Majid are recommended for further exploration of these concepts.
bagheraa
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As far as I have seen, all physical models begin with space, and then put matter that live in space and modify it somehow. Basically the models works fine and describe reality farily well. But at some point they arrive to problems, as infinite curvatures, that prevents them to be unified.

It could be possible a model that begins with matter, and from the relations of matter then deduce space? Is this a none sense? What would be the matter?
 
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To describe "relations" of matter, you need to describe the distance between matter, and once you do that you've introduced "space" in some sense. What kind of a scheme were you thinking about?
 
I don't have by now a cocrete idea. I think on something where distance is one of the consecuences of the form the matter units relates between them. Maybe distance is only the time it takes to react to a change. In some sense a matter unit would be reading the past history of other matter units. When we have more than two matter units this shifted times could be, in some aspects, understood as a space.
 
bagheraa said:
It could be possible a model that begins with matter, and from the relations of matter then deduce space? Is this a none sense? What would be the matter?

Your idea seems neither nonsensical nor silly. Don't forget to include time as well as space, or "spacetime", in your eventual solution!

Regarding the primacy of spacetime vs. matter there are (at least) three possibilities: (1) space is the progenitor of matter. I believe Einstein put considerable effort into deriving matter from empty spacetime. (2) matter is the progenitor of spacetime, which your idea, and doubtlessly others as well. (3) something more fundamental than either, from which both are derived.

My bias is door # (3), but the answer, when it surely comes, might be formulatable in all three ways.
 
James_Harford said:
Regarding the primacy of spacetime vs. matter there are (at least) three possibilities: (1) space is the progenitor of matter. I believe Einstein put considerable effort into deriving matter from empty spacetime. (2) matter is the progenitor of spacetime, which your idea, and doubtlessly others as well. (3) something more fundamental than either, from which both are derived.

My bias is door # (3), but the answer, when it surely comes, might be formulatable in all three ways.

Thanks for your answer.

Where can I find information on my bias door (2) and on yours (3)? Do you have links where I can look for others work?
 
Where can I find information on my bias door (2) and on yours (3)? Do you have links where I can look for others work?

Read This

On Space and Time

Shahn Majid

Oxford University Press
 
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