News Statistical Analysis of Casualties in the Palestinian - Israeli Conflict,

[schwarzchildradius]

Terrorism doesn't happen in a vacuum, it is a desparate response to the desparate situation of having no voice in one's scociety. Obviously this happens during an occupation by a more powerful government. It's a horrifying stalemate, when the more powerful government will not concede its occupying territory (and legitimize terrorism for the oppressed). Religious fundamentalism is like a force of nature - it exists and it can not be stopped.

 

[Zero]

Hmmmm...does declaring one side 'morally superior' make it perfect? Or can we safely deplore the actions of several different sides, for different reasons. The Pal;estinians live under military occupation, so have a legitimate beef against Israel. The current generation has grown up in horrible conditions not of their own making...seen friends and families, and sometimes their homes, destroyed by Israeli troops. Should they just accept their fate as the losers in some international struggle to fulfill Biblical prophesy? Let's not forget that, ok?

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
Hmmmm...does declaring one side 'morally superior' make it perfect? I think the term "morally superior" is so fundamentally flawed in it's typical usage that it really can have no realistic place in the majority of debates of the palestine and Israel issue. Or can we safely deplore the actions of several different sides, for different reasons. We should be able to, however, even in such a multi-faceted issue there are certainly certain actions that can and should be deplored but who's responsibility must be sqaurely layed at the feet of those who have the capability of ending them. There are, of course, issues of this nature on all sides of the matter The Pal;estinians live under military occupation, so have a legitimate beef against Israel.This military occupation is the result of specific actions of people other then the IDF, Israeli's didn't just wake up one morning and say "oh, gee whiz, I think we should occupy the palestinian mandated land" Israeli's certainly have not eased the situation over time, but the security risk involved must also be considered, particularly when you consider the other very culpable party...those who's entire lifetime have been devoted to organized terrorism at the cost of the lives of those very people they proclaim to have an interest in benefitting. As long as the PLO, Hizbollah, Fatah and the other various groups who are not only answering to Arafat but in fact have positions within his government are active in palestine there will be no peace for the Palestinian people. Why you are so adamant in ignoring this issue, Zero, I do not understand. The current generation has grown up in horrible conditions not of their own makingNor is it of Israeli making, it is however very much a result of surrounding countries own particular interest, their willingness to sacrifice the palestinian people for those interests and it is also the making of the PLO and their own particular interest including Arafats big fat bank roll. Your blaming the other set of victims, when you should be blaming the instigators. ...seen friends and families, and sometimes their homes, destroyed by Israeli troops. You seem to forget the purposeful strategy of using civilians and their homes as military installations, placing armed men and weaponry, and firing from civilian homes, crowds of civilians as a strategy, is horrific. These factions, the palestinian "government" are very much responsible for the deaths and the destruction of the Palstinian people and their homes. Should they just accept their fate as the losers in some international struggle to fulfill Biblical prophesy? Biblical prophesy? I think a large part of the jewish Anti-Israel population are against the existence of Israel because it interferes with biblical prophesy. So maybe it also has to do with the HISTORIC past, you know history OUTSIDE of the bible? or maybe they should accept their fate as losers because a large portion of the Middle East has used them as political pawns for their own benefit? Let's not forget that, ok? mmm yeah ok.

 

[russ_watters]

Originally posted by Zero
Hmmmm...does declaring one side 'morally superior' make it perfect?

Nope. Does it need to? Nope. It just means one side is BETTER than the other. And that's why one side gets our (the world community's) support and the other doesn't.

And until the Arabs deal with this simple reality, Zero, the rest of your post (which certainly does include legitimate concerns) is irrelevant.

I agree with that. I’m also sure that an individual Israeli soldier may seek his own vengeance, despite having orders to minimize civilian casualties.

Geniere, that is also part of the scenario in "The Sum of All Fears." It really is a great book.

Kat, you make good points, but is the pink really necessary? I almost didn't read your post because of it.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Kat, you make good points, but is the pink really necessary? I almost didn't read your post because of it.

But...but...but...I Like PINK! [b(]

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by russ_watters
Nope. Does it need to? Nope. It just means one side is BETTER than the other. And that's why one side gets our (the world community's) support and the other doesn't.

And until the Arabs deal with this simple reality, Zero, the rest of your post (which certainly does include legitimate concerns) is irrelevant.

By your logic(and I admit to using an extreme case to illustrate my point) you are saying that if Fidel Castro is the worst, than actions 10% less-bad than his, applied to his supporters, should be 'irrelevant', until he cleans up his act? Israel can do whatever it wants to Palestinians, so long as it isn't 'worse' than suicide bombings?

Isn't this the sort of 'moral relativism' so often blasted by teh right-wing?

 

[drag]

Greetings !

Originally posted by schwarzchildradius
Terrorism doesn't happen in a vacuum, it is a
desparate response to the desparate situation
of having no voice in one's scociety.

Indeed. But, that is not the case here.
The Palestinians are a different and separate
society. Also, Israel doesn't actually
hold most Palestinian territories, it
defends its own territories for the most part.
However, there are also illegal settlements as
well as some legal settlements that exist
in the middle of Palestinian populated territory.
These setllements must be removed.
Further more, the Israelis did occupy and even
currently occupy some Palestinian cities, but
the purpose of this occupation is self-defence,
since there are no borders the Palestinians cross
into Israel any time they want and kill people
so the only way to stop them is to destroy
the factories producing the armament and
explosives and prevent them from being sent
from the cities at least. Of course, this method
is limmited and practicly results in occupation,
even if it's pupose is not control of land.
This too should be stopped and it will be too
if and when the separation fence, or border if you
wish, that is currently being built will be
complete. The alternative solution of negotiating
with some kind of Palestinian leadership has
been adopted more than a decade ago, but
the terrorists who formed this leadership (who
were and still do appear to be the only ones
availible to organize and control the people)
continously keep sabotaging any nagotiation attempts
which eventually mean they'll get their own country
with official borders - they just want everything.

Live long and prosper.

 

[schwarzchildradius]

Funny thing I read the other day:

"Terrorism does not happen in a vacuum"

--Donald Rumsfeld