Still not on a good start for Gen Chem 1 lab....

[JoeyCentral]

Okay, so here is the deal. This is my third week in Gen Chem 1, and my first two labs so far were an 88 and a 74 out of 100 pts each. I do not know why I am getting this low of a grade. I do the work and I am a good student. I am taking Calculus III and Calculus Physics ATM, so I am a pretty good student.

However, I just do not understand why my lab professor gave me low grades recently. I mean, I do the experiment exactly as it describes, write down the results and calculations, and answer both the pre and post lab questions. Despite doing everything right last experiment, I was given a 74. I am now pissed off that he would give me a low grade like that, especially since I need all A's so I can get into UC Berkeley, which is already super hard to get into. Aside from the complaining, what can I do to do better?

I will say that this is my last chemistry class I need to take. I am only taking this because Computer Science Engineering and EE requires me to take General Chemistry 1 w/ lab. My strong suit is Physics and Math, mainly, and I study hard for all of my classes. However, lab is nothing like a regular class. I swear to God that I will never for the life of me understand how my other classmates all finish sooner than me in lab and get better grades. What the hell makes labs soo much different from lectures?

I cannot afford another C grade, so this is really really important. If someone can help me out and give me hints that can pretty much get me straight A's for all future experiments, that would be awesome! Again, sorry for the rant, but you have no idea how infuriating this is to me.

 

[Vanadium 50]

You should respectfully ask the professor why you got those grades. You should not demand an A so you can get into Berkeley. That will backfire.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Don't worry, I understand the Asian values of utmost respect towards teachers and professors. To be the best, you have to learn from the best, and in the case of academics, the best would be the asians. Also, I definitely know better than to demand a grade. I don't think I have ever done that since most of the time, I work hard to earn my high grades. However, the last time I ever received a grade that low was the last exam before the final exam for Calculus 2 (which was utter BS and was fortunately dropped from my overall grade still earning me an A for that class). However, I know last semester, in my intro chemistry class, I received a lot of B grades for my labs for reasons unknown. To me, labs are just weird. In typical classes, you study, do the exams, homework, and pass with an A. In labs, the instructors are soo strict in terms of what they want, and if you do not get certain numbers they want to see on your notebook, they pretty much mark you -10 for that. I asked my professor why I got a 74 and asked if it was some kind of mistake, since you never know whether it was a technical error or if they mistaken me for someone else (which I hope is the case). If not, then he will hopefully explain carefully. I will let you know what the details are once I get them. In the meantime, I would like to just have some general tips on how to finish lab quickly and with a good grade. I am almost always the last person to finish an experiment and I do not like sitting in the lab longer than I am supposed to.

 

[berkeman]

To be the best, you have to learn from the best, and in the case of academics, the best would be the asians.

That sounds pretty racist to me. Are your chem problems with an Asian professor?

And how in the world can you say that the grading of your lab work is arbitrary? Post your lab work here and we can help you understand why you are getting less than 100% scores.

 

[JoeyCentral]

I don't know how that is racist. In fact, it was supposed to come off as a compliment. Statistically, Asians are the best in academics, hence why they are known for getting the highest test scores in sciences and maths. No, the professor is not Asian. The only professor I have that is Asian is my physics instructor, and aside from his thick Chinese accent, he is pretty cool.

Anyways, the attachment contains the lab that I have done last week. Pretty simple and I followed all the steps pretty much. Like I said, I have no idea how professors in labs grade a project. I mean, all experiments are supposed to yield to different results, since there is no such thing as "the right answer." Also, as I implied in my main post, it is not a math problem since my math is pretty sharp. I cannot show more than that, however, since the professor still has my paper with my writings in it and I most likely won't get that back until a week from now. I know I am not the genius type, but unfortunately, I am not the offspring of parents with PHD's, so genetics isn't exactly on my side, unlike most of my peers in college. So aside from that working against me, then I think I would consider myself slightly above-average intellectually just from my hard work and self-discipline alone.

 

[Evo]

I can't believe that you are coming to an internet forum saying you are last/amongst the last to finish a lab assignment and want to know how to finish quicker with a better grade and oh, woe is you, your parents aren't PhD's (unlike most of your peers, that's what you said).

You cannot be serious. You cannot expect us to take you seriously.

 

[berkeman]

I don't know how that is racist. In fact, it was supposed to come off as a compliment. Statistically, Asians are the best in academics, hence why they are known for getting the highest test scores in sciences and maths. No, the professor is not Asian. The only professor I have that is Asian is my physics instructor, and aside from his thick Chinese accent, he is pretty cool.

Anyways, the attachment contains the lab that I have done last week. Pretty simple and I followed all the steps pretty much. Like I said, I have no idea how professors in labs grade a project. I mean, all experiments are supposed to yield to different results, since there is no such thing as "the right answer." Also, as I implied in my main post, it is not a math problem since my math is pretty sharp. I cannot show more than that, however, since the professor still has my paper with my writings in it and I most likely won't get that back until a week from now. I know I am not the genius type, but unfortunately, I am not the offspring of parents with PHD's, so genetics isn't exactly on my side, unlike most of my peers in college. So aside from that working against me, then I think I would consider myself slightly above-average intellectually just from my hard work and self-discipline alone.

Your attachment is not opening for me. Does it show the instructor's mark-downs?

 

[JoeyCentral]

Your attachment is not opening for me. Does it show the instructor's mark-downs?

Like I said, it is just an assignment sheet that we print out. It contains the pre/post lab questions, the lab instructions, and the data-table to record measurements and calculations. The professor still has my original paper, so my handwriting and his marks is still with him. I emailed him about meeting him in office hours to talk about my grade, what I did wrong, and what I can do to improve in future labs. So unless I meet him this week, then chances are, I will not have that paper with me until next week. Is there anything else I can provide that can make help possible?

I can't believe that you are coming to an internet forum saying you are last/amongst the last to finish a lab assignment and want to know how to finish quicker with a better grade and oh, woe is you, your parents aren't PhD's (unlike most of your peers, that's what you said).

You cannot be serious. You cannot expect us to take you seriously.

If I wasn't serious, then I wouldn't even have a physicsforums account in the first place. I am not trying to obtain pity, I am simply explaining why I am unable to grasp the concepts. Otherwise, people are going to assume I am just a moron.

 

[Drakkith]

In the meantime, I would like to just have some general tips on how to finish lab quickly and with a good grade. I am almost always the last person to finish an experiment and I do not like sitting in the lab longer than I am supposed to.

A few questions:

Do you read the lab manual beforehand so that you understand the experiment, have some idea of the equipment you need, and know how to use the equipment?

Are you trying to do the calculations during lab when you should be doing the experiment instead?

Do you focus on the lab or do you chitchat with others about topics unrelated to the lab?

Is there any particular area of the lab where you're having trouble and you know that it takes you longer than most?

 

[berkeman]

Like I said, it is just an assignment sheet that we print out. It contains the pre/post lab questions, the lab instructions, and the data-table to record measurements and calculations. The professor still has my original paper, so my handwriting and his marks is still with him. I emailed him about meeting him in office hours to talk about my grade, what I did wrong, and what I can do to improve in future labs. So unless I meet him this week, then chances are, I will not have that paper with me until next week. Is there anything else I can provide that can make help possible?

In the future, it is a good habit to keep copies of your work. If you had that here, we could try to analyze the mark-downs that you received.

Post the last lab that you did with the mark-downs. Your surely have that.

 

[Drakkith]

However, I know last semester, in my intro chemistry class, I received a lot of B grades for my labs for reasons unknown.

Well, was it because your results were typically a little too far from the accepted values?

 

[JoeyCentral]

A few questions:

Do you read the lab manual beforehand so that you understand the experiment, have some idea of the equipment you need, and know how to use the equipment?

Are you trying to do the calculations during lab when you should be doing the experiment instead?

Do you focus on the lab or do you chitchat with others about topics unrelated to the lab?

Is there any particular area of the lab where you're having trouble and you know that it takes you longer than most?

Before I go into lab, I have to have my labcoat and goggles, my pre-lab answered, and on top of that, I have to have my entire lab procedure written out as well; word-to-word.

I will admit, I do try to do calculations in the middle once I received sufficient information. I can see why that slows me down. So I guess in the future, I should just record all data and do the experiment first, and then do the calculations after?

My lab partner is studious and cares about her studies as well as I do, hence why I chose her. Yes, we are fixated and focused on the experiment the whole time and I'd say we do a good job staying focused.

For me, I am a visual learner. So even if I do read instructions beforehand, it is different if I try to actually do it. For me, I have to see something before I can fully understand it. To just try and visualize text is very hard. On top of that, there are terminologies that I am unfamiliar with and names of lab equipment that I am still not quite aware of. To be honest with you, I just being in an environment where everyone else pretty much knows what they are doing, so it is like being dropped into shark-infested waters and being told "good luck."

In the future, it is a good habit to keep copies of your work. If you had that here, we could try to analyze the mark-downs that you received.

Post the last lab that you did with the mark-downs. Your surely have that.

It is in the attachment. Let me know if you have trouble opening it.

 

[Drakkith]

I will admit, I do try to do calculations in the middle once I received sufficient information. I can see why that slows me down. So I guess in the future, I should just record all data and do the experiment first, and then do the calculations after?

Absolutely. Don't worry about the calculations at all unless you have to calculate something before moving on.

To be honest with you, I just being in an environment where everyone else pretty much knows what they are doing, so it is like being dropped into shark-infested waters and being told "good luck."

I think you're overestimating the abilities of your fellow students. And even if you aren't, who cares if you're last? Why does it bother you? I can tell you right now that nobody cares whether you're first or last in your labs. Not the students, not the teacher, nobody. Someone has to be last and even if it's you, don't let it bother you. It absolutely doesn't matter. Instead, focus on doing the labs correctly and getting the most accurate data possible given your experience and the time constraints. Because the data WILL matter. Inaccurate results WILL fail you. Being last in lab will not.

 

[e.bar.goum]

So, looking at your last attachment, I'm wondering how it can be that your poor grades are a mystery? In A, you haven't reported the measurements to the precision specified in the question, and your numbers are quite a far way off the accepted value. In B, your result for the volume is just wrong. For the definition of volume - a good hint for filling out worksheets is looking at the space you were given. If you're given 3 lines, it's pretty clear that your lecturer wanted more than an equation. Also, the symbol for density is $\rho$, just for the record. Further, your definition of precision vs accuracy is off. The only fair complaint is that you didn't know what the mark allocation was, as it wasn't on the worksheet.

Looking at this, my advice is to be careful in how you answer questions - if the question asks for a certain accuracy, report your numbers as such, if the question implies that it expects a long form answer, give one. Just take more care.

 

[symbolipoint]

I have not looked at your attachment.

For me, I am a visual learner. So even if I do read instructions beforehand, it is different if I try to actually do it. For me, I have to see something before I can fully understand it. To just try and visualize text is very hard. On top of that, there are terminologies that I am unfamiliar with and names of lab equipment that I am still not quite aware of. To be honest with you, I just being in an environment where everyone else pretty much knows what they are doing, so it is like being dropped into shark-infested waters and being told "good luck."

Understandable. The planning and preparation to do before the lab class meeting should be drawing pictures based on what you read, and writing a procedure in your own organized form.

Learning to use equipment in lab class of General Chemistry should be straightforward because the equipment is not likely very complicated.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Absolutely. Don't worry about the calculations at all unless you have to calculate something before moving on.

That makes sense. I will definitely try that in my next lab by getting rid of any temptations of wanting to calculate in the middle of an experiment.

I think you're overestimating the abilities of your fellow students. And even if you aren't, who cares if you're last? Why does it bother you? I can tell you right now that nobody cares whether you're first or last in your labs. Not the students, not the teacher, nobody. Someone has to be last and even if it's you, don't let it bother you. It absolutely doesn't matter. Instead, focus on doing the labs correctly and getting the most accurate data possible given your experience and the time constraints. Because the data WILL matter. Inaccurate results WILL fail you. Being last in lab will not.

I get what you are saying. However, I always originally thought that I was doing everything right by not rushing out of the experiment. Of course, I am not arguing against your logic, but it is just demoralizing to see that the last person, who is supposed to have the most accurate readings, most likely got one of the lowest grades on the project.

So, looking at your last attachment, I'm wondering how it can be that your poor grades are a mystery? In A, you haven't reported the measurements to the precision specified in the question, and your numbers are quite a far way off the accepted value. In B, your result for the volume is just wrong. For the definition of volume - a good hint for filling out worksheets is looking at the space you were given. If you're given 3 lines, it's pretty clear that your lecturer wanted more than an equation. Also, the symbol for density is $\rho$, just for the record. Further, your definition of precision vs accuracy is off. The only fair complaint is that you didn't know what the mark allocation was, as it wasn't on the worksheet.

Looking at this, my advice is to be careful in how you answer questions - if the question asks for a certain accuracy, report your numbers as such, if the question implies that it expects a long form answer, give one. Just take more care.

First, I did not know what significant figures we were using for part A. Maybe the directions for "yse 1mm increments" was a hint,but at the time, I had no idea. Also, looking at part B, I completely do not know what the question was asking. I thought it was simply just asking for me to record the volume that was on the cylinder. I have no idea where he got 13.5 mL from. I will admit, that answer for definition of density is very lazy. I should have opened my phone or textbook and write down the definition. Also, at the time I did this lab, I had no idea what the definitions of precision and accuracy was. It was only one or two days after that I learned the difference.

Regardless, I appreciate you taking the time to look through my attachment and seeing that mess. I would say that I need to stop slacking and start studying better, but the problem is, I pretty much gotten rid of video games and most other hobbies from my life, and I am still not getting it. Ugh, balancing all of my classes/labs is very hard, especially since I have a calculus exam coming up later this week. It is a good thing I am only taking 14 credits this semester. Still, I need to change immediately and not make the same mistake again.

I have not looked at your attachment.Understandable. The planning and preparation to do before the lab class meeting should be drawing pictures based on what you read, and writing a procedure in your own organized form.

Learning to use equipment in lab class of General Chemistry should be straightforward because the equipment is not likely very complicated.

That sounds like a good idea. The problem is, I just suck at drawing. Or maybe, I can youtube a similar experiment and watch it just so I can get a visual sense of what to do?

 

[e.bar.goum]

First, I did not know what significant figures we were using for part A. Maybe the directions for "yse 1mm increments" was a hint,but at the time, I had no idea. Also, looking at part B, I completely do not know what the question was asking. I thought it was simply just asking for me to record the volume that was on the cylinder. I have no idea where he got 13.5 mL from. I will admit, that answer for definition of density is very lazy. I should have opened my phone or textbook and write down the definition. Also, at the time I did this lab, I had no idea what the definitions of precision and accuracy was. It was only one or two days after that I learned the difference.

Regardless, I appreciate you taking the time to look through my attachment and seeing that mess. I would say that I need to stop slacking and start studying better, but the problem is, I pretty much gotten rid of video games and most other hobbies from my life, and I am still not getting it. Ugh, balancing all of my classes/labs is very hard, especially since I have a calculus exam coming up later this week. It is a good thing I am only taking 14 credits this semester. Still, I need to change immediately and not make the same mistake again.

Yes, it seems your issue is, at least in part, misreading the questions. This just is a matter of taking care. Part A told you about sig fig in "The data will be recorded to the nearest 0.5 mm". Part B explicitly asked you to "Record .. the volume of the liquid in the cylinder". This is also a matter of understanding the context of your lab! The objective was "To learn the proper use of a graduated cylinder". You should therefore expect that you'll be asked to use one! (Also, you were told about sig fig here - "estimation to the nearest 0.5 ml". In addition, you didn't need to open your phone to write down the definition of density - clearly, you knew it, as you wrote down the equation. All you needed to do was translate it to words! Basically you just need to be more careful, and think through what you are doing.

Also, here's a pro-tip: when someone is marking work, they are way more likely to be lenient if your handwriting/presentation is neat. Putting the marker in a good mood is always advisable.

 

[micromass]

Wow, your lab report is a mess. This looks like a draft version, not something you hand in. Surely, you can put in some more effort to make everything neat and tidy.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I saw your original posting, before the mods edited it, and it was very much a "blame the professors" message. You've argued that you've done everything right, and that you need the A to get into Berkeley. Had you turned that in at Berkeley, the next thing you know, you'd be sailing over Telegraph Road. Micromass is right, it's a mess. And E.bar.goum is right in her assessment of what went wrong. Let me add to her reply:

A. The density you got is 40% off, but correct given the measurements. The measurements therefore are off - by a lot. You should be able to do substantially better.

B. "Record the volume of the liquid in the cylinder". You wrote 45 or 49 mL - I can't tell. Either way, that's nearly full. It was actually 13.5 - one-third full. If you can't tell one-third full from nearly full, this is a problem.

You're going to have to up your game if you want to succeed at Berkeley, and the first step is to stop arguing that you've done everything right, accept that you've made mistakes and learn from them.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Sorry for the late response, but I had a very busy week this week. Anyways, I found out the reason for why I got a 74, and it was because I forgot to turn in my pre-lab. I sent the scanned copy of it to him via email and he changed my grade to a 94. Yeah, I admit that I was a little hot-headed and I agree that I have a lot to work on. However, note that college and university is a place to learn, and even Berkeley students make stupid mistakes as well. That is why I am in college and why I am working to improve. Anyways, if the above posters are still interested in seeing my lab procedures to "critique it", I would be very thankful. Even though I got a good grade on my last experiment, I still feel that I can improve.

 

[Student100]

. Anyways, if the above posters are still interested in seeing my lab procedures to "critique it", I would be very thankful. Even though I got a good grade on my last experiment, I still feel that I can improve.

The best way to improve is to schedule an appointment with the professor during his office hours. He can give you more targeted advice about things we can't see in your report alone, like time management during the lab itself. He also knows what he wants more than we do.

You made careless mistakes in the lab posted, and I wouldn't even call it a lab. It's more of a worksheet that holds your hand throughout. Take your time and use the full lab time if you aren't already- wait for the professor to kick you out.

 

[JoeyCentral]

I get it, there was no excuse for that last lab >.<. Yeah, I definitely am going to plan a day to talk to my lab professor and ask him what areas I need to work on and what to practice on. I am also going to meet with my lecture professor for chemistry early morning on Tuesday before class since I am having trouble grasping the concepts of the quantum mechanics. I never remembered intro chemistry being this difficult, since all we learned about quantum mechanics was properties of waves and filling out orbitals (which I admit was pretty simple). So i will spend this entire weekend conceptualizing that entire chapter so that I can be prepared for both lecture and lab this week.

 

[Formagella]

don't be too confrontational and really, just pay more attention to stuff. Professors never get tired of repeating to read carefully and people keep doing it wrong. Some people just can't help it, that's why it happens every time. You can try not to be that person though.

Forgetting to hand-in prelab stuff and answering a question with a formula plus bad calligraphy looks a bit sloppy to me for someone who's trying to excel.
My physics professors insisted early on that a formula is not an answer nor an explanation. But I had one in high school who insisted a lot on showing the difference between a phenomenon and a formula already so I guess I was lucky.

Also the significant figures thing could have been solved by paying attention to whether you have used all the information contained in the question or not. This worksheet seems very condensed so I don't think they put useless stuff there to trick you. By paying more attention you can avoid stuff like this. The same goes for the 3 lines after the question about density, of which you barely used one.

 

[JoeyCentral]

My handwriting is inherited by my father. Some people are born with good handwriting while others aren't. It is not fair to say that I am not trying to excel just because of my handwriting. That is like saying a black person should stop having black skin in order to succeed in physics. As for the pre-lab, that was a big misunderstanding. That was my first time doing a lab in his class. Every professor is different. As soon as he saw my pre-lab before lab, he signed his initials on it, so I assumed that meant he already graded it.

Like I said, however, I know that the assignment I posted here was flawed. However, to assume that a student will be a professional scientist the second he gets into college is a flawed way of thinking. The reason I am going to school is to learn. If I already knew the content and materials, I wouldn't be taking the class. I am coming here to learn and to be better, and that is why I am doing everything I can to fix my current flaws and to be successful.

 

[micromass]

My handwriting is inherited by my father. Some people are born with good handwriting while others aren't. It is not fair to say that I am not trying to excel just because of my handwriting. That is like saying a black person should stop having black skin in order to succeed in physics.

That is one of the worst comparisons I've heard so far. But hey, we gave you constructive advice, whether or not you accept that is your thing.

 

[JoeyCentral]

I was asking for advice in terms of chemistry. I don't think professor really care if someone's handwriting is stellar or not as long as they can read it. My handwriting might not be pretty, but it is readable.

 

[micromass]

I don't think professor really care if someone's handwriting is stellar or not as long as they can read it.

I grade people regularly, and I care. Take from that what you will.

My handwriting might not be pretty, but it is readable.

I had significant difficulties with reading your work.

 

[JoeyCentral]

But still, even if it is bad, there is nothing I can do to fix it. I mean, I am only 5'6". I would love to grow to be 5'10", but height is determined by genetics from both of our parents, so I am stuck being average, just like how I am stuck with bad handwriting. I would love to have neater handwriting, but unfortunately, God did not gift me with such genetics. I understand as a instructor, you don't like reading through bad handwriting and spending extra time to determine what that student has written down. However, if I had any control on how I write, I would have already changed it by now.

 

[micromass]

But still, even if it is bad, there is nothing I can do to fix it. I mean, I am only 5'6". I would love to grow to be 5'10", but height is determined by genetics from both of our parents, so I am stuck being average, just like how I am stuck with bad handwriting. I would love to have neater handwriting, but unfortunately, God did not gift me with such genetics. I understand as a instructor, you don't like reading through bad handwriting and spending extra time to determine what that student has written down. However, if I had any control on how I write, I would have already changed it by now.

I have a bad handwriting, but I can write very nice and clean if I want to. So I really don't see what the problem is.

 

[Mark44]

My handwriting is inherited by my father.

I think you mean it was inherited from your father.

But still, even if it is bad, there is nothing I can do to fix it. I mean, I am only 5'6". I would love to grow to be 5'10", but height is determined by genetics from both of our parents, so I am stuck being average, just like how I am stuck with bad handwriting. I would love to have neater handwriting, but unfortunately, God did not gift me with such genetics.

I agree that you can't "learn" to be taller, but I doubt very much that handwriting ability is genetic. When I was going to school they taught penmanship, so people with no handwriting skills could acquire this skill. Unfortunately this skill is not part of the grammar school curriculum any more. Nevertheless, as with many things, if you practice it, it gets better. I'm reasonably sure that there must be some books out there to help people write more legibly.

I understand as a instructor, you don't like reading through bad handwriting and spending extra time to determine what that student has written down. However, if I had any control on how I write, I would have already changed it by now.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Honestly, I have made this observation more than enough times to conclude that good handwriting is a trait inherited to females while the males are the ones with the bad handwriting. I was raised by a father who was very masculine, but he had very bad handwriting. Like, not even he could read his own handwriting. So if you think my handwriting is bad, then you obviously never seen his lol. I guess it has to do with the nurturing nature of females and them being more detail-oriented that makes them better with penmanship than males. Personally, I would much rather just type than handwrite nowadays. Once I get out of school, chances are, the only thing I will ever have to handwrite is my signature and checks. This is the 21st century, so everything is done and written by typing. With that said ,I am not going to go through the trouble of improving my handwriting just so I can make my work prettier when professors grade based on a student's understanding of material than their handwriting (unless you were in a class that taught you handwriting that is xD).

I mean, God made us all different and gave us different strengths and weaknesses. Instead of diverging precious time to fixing something that isn't meant to be fixed, I will just embrace the fact I have bad handwriting and move on to more important matters, such as improving my understanding of chemistry, physics, mathematics, engineering, etc.

 

[Vanadium 50]

With that said ,I am not going to go through the trouble of improving my handwriting just so I can make my work prettier when professors grade based on a student's understanding of material than their handwriting

If your handwriting is so terrible you can't tell a 5 from a 9, this is a problem. If you refuse to fix this, it will remain a problem.

My handwriting is bad. My father's was bad. My solution? I print. I don't whitesplain how bad handwriting - and my refusal to take steps to better communicate with others - has some sort of moral equivalence to institutional racism. And, by the way, this will not go over well at Berkeley. You might think about abandoning it.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Abandoning what? Bad handwriting? So you are telling me everyone at Berkeley has pretty handwriting? I am sorry, but I doubt they all have the prettiest handwriting. I really have no idea what you are talking about nor do I see any clear connections between my admissions chances at UC Berkeley and my handwriting. Could you please elaborate your point?

 

[micromass]

Abandoning what? Bad handwriting? So you are telling me everyone at Berkeley has pretty handwriting? I am sorry, but I doubt they all have the prettiest handwriting. I really have no idea what you are talking about nor do I see any clear connections between my admissions chances at UC Berkeley and my handwriting. Could you please elaborate your point?

It has nothing to do with admission chances. It has to do with general attitude. Of course I don't know much about you, but comparing bad handwriting to racism is not a kind of attitude I expect of somebody who is successful at Berkeley.

 

[Student100]

To be the best, you have to learn from the best, and in the case of academics, the best would be the asians.

My handwriting is inherited by my father. Some people are born with good handwriting while others aren't. It is not fair to say that I am not trying to excel just because of my handwriting. That is like saying a black person should stop having black skin in order to succeed in physics.

Abandoning what? Bad handwriting? So you are telling me everyone at Berkeley has pretty handwriting? I am sorry, but I doubt they all have the prettiest handwriting. I really have no idea what you are talking about nor do I see any clear connections between my admissions chances at UC Berkeley and my handwriting. Could you please elaborate your point?

If engineering doesn't work out, I would steer clear of politics if I were you.

They're trying to help show you that your attitude isn't one successful people tend to have. You aren't effectively taking their criticism to heart. Instead, you're making some off the wall comments and excuses.

Handwriting's bad? Got it. I'll try to fix it.

Lab work is sloppy? Got it.I'll try to fix it.

I also have this problem with x. Oh doing y might help x? Got it. I'll try to fix it.

That's how successful people- like the students at Berkeley- tend to process criticism we assume.

Instead of continuing to seek constructive criticism, you're making excuses and explaining away the handwriting by comparing it to the color of people's skin. You haven't advanced the conversation since then. Now they're warning you that this isn't going to make you a successful student.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Look, I love minorities, alright? I even considered minoring in Asian studies because my love for their culture is that genuine. I did this for two reasons; because I truly love Asian society and its people, and to prove I am not a racist. I seriously don't know how many additional steps I must take to prove I am not racist. Look, I am sorry if comparing racism to bad handwriting was offensive, but I am just trying to make a point, which is that handwriting is not really a skill that one can improve on. I can make my handwriting look a little bit neater in terms of positioning and size, but I cannot make it look very pretty.

Like I said, I love Asians, and there is nothing in the world worse than making any kind of offensive or racist remarks towards them or anybody else. In fact, I consider myself Asian even though I was born caucasian, that is how radical I have become. If I was racist, then I would be claiming whites are superior to everyone else, which is totally opposite of what I believe.

Look, I really think we have went off-topic here to an extreme degree. I mainly posted this because I thought that I really did get a 74 on my last lab, but fortunately, it was just a slight misconception and misunderstandings. I even welcome criticism in terms of how I can improve my lab writings, and I have taken almost every single one of them to heart because like I said, I want to improve. However, I just think it is silly to say that I need pretty handwriting in order to succeed. I agree that writing a little neater and properly spacing out my paper for data writing is an important factor, but to totally change my handwriting just because it is not pretty is too demanding. That is the only criticism I am objecting to here out of all.

Just to let everyone know, I am not trying to be a smart-a** in any way, shape, or form, nor am I self-deluding myself into thinking I am perfect. I know I that I have areas to work in and I appreciate every bit of constructive criticism posted by everyone on here who has taken the time to look at my work and tell me what I need to work on. Please know that you have my gratitude.

 

[micromass]

So first of all, racism is not necessarily whites claiming to be superior. It can also be asians claiming to be superior. So you saying that asians are the best because they're asian, that is a racist statement.
Anyway, we're not trying to tell you that you're racist. Racism is pretty irrelevant here. What we're trying to tell you is that you're making excuses for things instead of changing them. And comparing racism to bad handwriting might not be a racist statement, but it is not the kind of quality statement a Berkeley student would tend to make.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Alright. Then please tell me what kind of statement a Berkeley student would make, so I can learn to be like them? Like I said, I shouldn't have made that comparison and it was wrong. I mean, I don't know what the Berkeley mindset would be and how the students there think. But I really want to think like a Berkeley student, so what are the first couple of steps I can take to be like them?

 

[micromass]

I think Student100's post 35 is spot on.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Right. Well, I do have that mentality obviously, since if I didn't, then I wouldn't be here asking how I can improve on my lab. I am trying to fix it, but without orientation or guidance, how can I improve it? There is a difference between a modest attitude of saying, "Yeah, I'll work on it" and not working on it, and someone who says they will work on it and actually works on it. I have that mentality, hence why I am working hard to fix my lab right now. So in a sense, according to Student100's post, I do have the Berkeley attitude already. I do not try to make excuses for my failures. A person who does that never succeeds in life, and they spend the rest of their lives telling others that they could have been big in life. I am not that. I spent about half of my entire life reflecting upon failure and learning from it. Had I not done that, then I wouldn't be where I am today.

Look, once again, I understand that was not a good comparison. But aside from that, what other criticism did I really object to other than handwriting? I sacrificed everything to improve to being a good student. I sacrificed video games, socializing in non-EC's at school, and pretty much dedicated all of my time to school both in and outside the classrooms. Even though it is hard to see it, I do have the mentality that Student100 mentioned. Sometimes, I just make poor decisions that end up making others believe otherwise. I try to minimize it and I have done a good job at doing so.

 

[symbolipoint]

That is one of the worst comparisons I've heard so far. But hey, we gave you constructive advice, whether or not you accept that is your thing.

Not really. Some people are left-handed; some people are right-handed; a few people are unhanded. Why some people exhibit poor handwriting, ... someone else understands this better than we.

 

[micromass]

Not really. Some people are left-handed; some people are right-handed; a few people are unhanded. Why some people exhibit poor handwriting, ... someone else understands this better than we.

Again: everybody is able to pull off nice or at least readable handwriting if he really wants to.

 

[symbolipoint]

JoeyCentral said:

This is the 21st century, so everything is done and written by typing. With that said ,I am not going to go through the trouble of improving my handwriting just so I can make my work prettier when professors grade based on a student's understanding of material than their handwriting (unless you were in a class that taught you handwriting that is xD).

That just means you are not willing to communicate effectively, so that a professor or someone else could understand your works.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Honestly, I have never had a problem with handwriting in the past before to the point in where instructors did not understand it. I can slow down a little bit and make it more "neat", but other than that, I cannot change my handwriting the same way a word processor can change the character's fonts. However, if we had to prioritize what is more important, would you place pretty handwriting or doing the homework and reading of course materials to stay ahead at the top of the priority list? If I was on break and I had absolutely nothing to do, then I might try to better improve my handwriting by doing some online research. Other than that, though, pretty handwriting alone isn't going to get me A's. Trust me, I've seen girls before in the past with the prettiest handwriting in the world, get C's or D's back on their tests. I understand both have their benefits, but in a world as fast paced as the one we live in now, we need to sort out priorities, which means we have to choose one or the other.

 

[micromass]

However, if we had to prioritize what is more important, would you place pretty handwriting or doing the homework and reading of course materials to stay ahead at the top of the priority list?

Berkeley students are able to do both.

 

[JoeyCentral]

Berkeley students are able to do both.

Well, I guess I'll be an exceptional Berkeley student then.

 

[micromass]

Well, I guess I'll be an exceptional Berkeley student then.

See, you're not even willing to try. You either just give up or make excuses. That is what makes you unfit for Berkeley.

 

[JoeyCentral]

See, you're not even willing to try. You either just give up or make excuses. That is what makes you unfit for Berkeley.

Because writing by hand is an outdated skill. They don't even teach it in kindergarten anymore. Besides, I know people in Berkeley. Not once did ANY of the students tell me that you need fancy handwriting. In fact, I was told by tutors in my academic center that my handwriting was actually decent. As long as it is readable, then it is good. So for you to tell me I am unfit for Berkeley, when I doubt you have even been on the campus (I have btw and made friends with a lot of students there), and you are annoying me right now by telling me something you clearly have no knowledge of. So don't tell me I am unfit for Berkeley when I have friends who actually go there and I am fairly certain they know more about Berkeley than you do.

At Berkeley college? Sure. I hear they have an excellent interior design program: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/berkeley-college-7394

No. UC Berkeley.

http://www.berkeley.edu/

 

[Student100]

Well, I guess I'll be an exceptional Berkeley student then.

At Berkeley college? Sure. I hear they have an excellent interior design program: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/berkeley-college-7394

 

[symbolipoint]

Honestly, I have never had a problem with handwriting in the past before to the point in where instructors did not understand it. I can slow down a little bit and make it more "neat", but other than that, I cannot change my handwriting the same way a word processor can change the character's fonts. However, if we had to prioritize what is more important, would you place pretty handwriting or doing the homework and reading of course materials to stay ahead at the top of the priority list? If I was on break and I had absolutely nothing to do, then I might try to better improve my handwriting by doing some online research. Other than that, though, pretty handwriting alone isn't going to get me A's. Trust me, I've seen girls before in the past with the prettiest handwriting in the world, get C's or D's back on their tests. I understand both have their benefits, but in a world as fast paced as the one we live in now, we need to sort out priorities, which means we have to choose one or the other.

Those students (no matter if males or females) with nice handwriting but mediocre or worse grades are EASIER TO HELP, because the grader can clearly find what such students understand and what not understand - because they are communicating well with neat handwriting. TRUST ME ON THIS!