T/F: Subset of a spanning set always forms a basis

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the statement regarding finite sets of vectors and their relationship to spanning sets and bases in vector spaces. Participants explore the implications of the "Spanning Set Theorem" and the conditions under which a subset of vectors can form a basis.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants examine the validity of the statement by considering scenarios where the original set of vectors spans the trivial vector space. They question whether a set of zero vectors can be interpreted as a spanning set and discuss the implications of this interpretation.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants raising questions about the definitions and conditions necessary for a subset to be considered a basis. There is exploration of different interpretations of the problem statement, particularly regarding the nature of the vectors involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the original set of vectors could potentially consist solely of zero vectors, which complicates the determination of a basis. The implications of spanning the trivial vector space are under consideration.

Mr Davis 97
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Homework Statement


T/F: If a finite set of vectors spans a vector space, then some subset of the vectors is a basis.

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The Attempt at a Solution



It seems that the answer is true, due to the "Spanning Set Theorem," which says that we are allowed to remove vectors in a spanning set until we get a set that is linearly independent and thus forms a basis. However, what if our original set of vectors only spans the trivial vectors space ##\{ 0 \}##? In that case we can't form a basis, so wouldn't the answer to this question be false?
 
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Mr Davis 97 said:
However, what if our original set of vectors only spans the trivial vectors space ##\{ 0 \}?
This can only be the case, if all vectors in the set are ##\vec{0}##. Then the subset ##\{\}## spans ##\{0\}##.
 
So in the problem statement, why can't we interpret that the finite set of vectors is a set of zero vectors?
 
Mr Davis 97 said:
So in the problem statement, why can't we interpret that the finite set of vectors is a set of zero vectors?
Who says we can't? A set ##\{\vec{0},\vec{0},\vec{0},\vec{0},\ldots\}=\{\vec{0}\}## spans the zero dimensional vector space ##V=\{0\}## with the basis ##\{\}##. Of course this is on the edge of the definition and not very geometric, but it is allowed. And if you take away ##\vec{0}## from ##\{\vec{0}\}## you are left with the basis ##\{\}## of ##V=\{0\}##.

One cannot have some non-zero vectors and their (linear) span will turn out to be ##\{0\}##, because with every ##0 \neq \vec{v}## there will be at least all vectors ##\mathbb{R}\cdot \vec{v}## in the linear span of a set, that contains ##\vec{v}##.
(I chose ##\mathbb{R}## as the corresponding field for simplicity, but any other will work as well.)
 

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