The Big Bang and CP Violation: Where Did the Mass Go?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the implications of CP violation during the Big Bang and its effects on the current mass of the universe, particularly regarding matter-antimatter annihilation and the resulting photon production. Participants explore theoretical scenarios related to mass generation and the nature of radiation in the context of cosmological expansion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that CP violation resulted in an excess of protons, leading to a significant number of photons produced from matter-antimatter annihilation.
  • Another participant argues that the mass does not change during proton-antiproton annihilation, implying that the radiation field retains mass.
  • A question is raised about whether the mass of photons is considered in the overall mass measurement of the universe.
  • It is noted that radiation energy constitutes a small fraction of the total energy density in the present epoch due to the different dilution rates of radiation and nonrelativistic matter as the universe expands.
  • Participants discuss how the wavelength of photons has been stretched from gamma to microwave due to the expansion of the universe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of annihilation on mass and energy density, with some agreeing on the role of radiation in the universe's energy budget while others question the interpretation of mass in this context. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the theoretical implications of the initial conditions of the Big Bang.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about mass conversion and the treatment of radiation in cosmological measurements. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of how energy density evolves over time.

Khursed
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Briefly into the big bang, matter anti-matter annihilation which lead to an excess of matter that is what is our current universe, left us with roughly 20 billion photon for each proton.

From what I understand, the rough scenario is that CP violation meant that for every 10 billion matter anti-matter pair, we got an extra proton, which is the left over.

The 10 billion matter, and 10 billion anti-matter proton then annihilated and produced the 20 billion photon of gamma energy that is now the micro-wave background radiation.

So, my question is, does this process mean that in theory, had the big bang created 20 billion normal matter proton instead of 10 billion matter and 10 billion anti-matter proton, that the current universe would be 20 billion time more massive, and have 20 billion time more matter?

I mean where am I wrong? Because it seems that a proton anti-proton annihilation simply makes the mass of the both of them convert into a massless gamma ray, that then cools off for billions of years... Which sounds as a weird way to get rid of mass.

That also begs the question, how does a gamma ray cool down and loses all that energy?
 
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Khursed said:
Because it seems that a proton anti-proton annihilation simply makes the mass of the both of them convert into a massless gamma ray

The radiation field is not massless. In fact the mass doesn't change during the annihilation.

Khursed said:
That also begs the question, how does a gamma ray cool down and loses all that energy?

By the expansion of the universe. The wavelength has been stretched from gamma to microwave.
 
DrStupid said:
The radiation field is not massless. In fact the mass doesn't change during the annihilation.



By the expansion of the universe. The wavelength has been stretched from gamma to microwave.

Ok, so, the universe then has 20 billion time its mass in floating micro-wave photons?

Or is this mass actually taken into account when they measure the mass of the universe?
 
Khursed said:
Or is this mass actually taken into account when they measure the mass of the universe?

Yes, the mass density of the universe is equivalent to its energy density and radiation contributes to the energy.
 
Worth noting that radiation energy constitutes only a negligibly small fraction of the total energy density at the present epoch. This is because, as was mentioned implicitly above, radiation (photons) dilute like 1/a^4, while normal nonrelativistic matter dilutes only like 1/a^3 under the expansion of the universe. This means that as time goes by, photons make up less and less of the total energy density as compared to matter. Conversely, going back in time, there was a point where radiation was actually the dominant constituent (~70,000 years after the bb).
 

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