The Lagrangian Solution of an LC Circuit

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the application of the Lagrangian formulation to analyze a simple LC circuit consisting of one inductor and one capacitor. Participants explore the classification of energy terms within the Lagrangian framework, particularly the treatment of inductor energy as kinetic energy versus potential energy.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using the Lagrangian formulation with charge as the generalized coordinate, questioning why the inductor's energy is treated as kinetic energy.
  • Another participant argues that the term involving the time derivative of charge is analogous to velocity squared, supporting the classification of inductor energy as kinetic energy.
  • A different viewpoint posits that the distinction between kinetic and potential energy may not be significant, as the total energy is represented by the Hamiltonian and the Lagrangian is defined by their difference.
  • One participant emphasizes the need for caution with signs when dealing with multiple energy terms, suggesting that the treatment may vary with more complex systems.
  • Another participant adds that while capacitors can store energy, inductors can only store energy temporarily in a magnetic field, implying a difference in their energy storage capabilities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the classification of energy terms in the Lagrangian formulation, with no consensus reached on whether the inductor's energy should be considered kinetic or potential.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the treatment of energy terms may depend on definitions and the context of the discussion, particularly when considering systems with more than two energy terms.

nmbr28albert
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One way to solve the simple LC circuit with 1 inductor and 1 capacitor is to use the Lagrangian formulation of mechanics and consider charge q as the generalized coordinate. When writing down your Lagrangian, the energy of the inductor \frac{1}{2}L(\frac{dq}{dt})^2 is treated as the kinetic energy, and the energy of the capacitor \frac{q^2}{2C} is treated as the potential. My first instinct is to treat the inductor energy as also potential energy. Why is it considered kinetic?
 
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Because it is similar to the kinetic energy i.e the term (dq/dt)^2 is similar to v^2. The definition of velocity v in lagrangian mechanics is the first derivative wrt time, of the generalized coordinate right?
 
I don't think it matters which you call what.

You have two terms. The sum is the Hamiltonian (total energy) and the difference is the Lagrangian. The sign of the difference shouldn't make any difference.

When you have three or more terms, you need to be more careful with signs.
 
that sounds right

on linear motion along coordinate x, velocity is dx/dt, i.e., the first derivattive. Kinetic energy is (1/2)mv^2 or one half of constant m times the square of the first derivative of the generalized coordinate.

Besides, capacitors can actually store energy and inductors cannot, at least not permanently, only temporarily in the magnetic field but things need to be in motion (changing).

my 2 cents
 

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