The Moon moves away from the earth - Is the theory correct ?

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    Earth Moon Theory
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of the Moon moving away from the Earth, specifically examining the rate of recession and the underlying theories explaining this behavior. Participants explore various aspects of gravitational interactions, tidal forces, and the implications of these factors over geological time scales.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the Moon moves away from the Earth at a rate of 3.8 cm per year, questioning the implications of this rate over geological time scales.
  • Others propose that the recession speed may have been different in the past, suggesting that the Moon could have been much closer to the Earth billions of years ago.
  • One participant discusses the role of tidal forces and how they relate to the Moon's recession, indicating that the Moon's distance from Earth is influenced by the Earth's rotation and the resulting tidal bulges.
  • Another participant expresses confusion regarding the gravitational interactions from the Moon's perspective, questioning why the Earth does not appear to approach the Moon despite gravitational attraction.
  • Some participants challenge the explanation of how mechanical forces are transferred through space to affect the Moon's motion, suggesting there may be a "missing link" in understanding this phenomenon.
  • There are discussions about the mathematical relationships governing tidal forces and their effects on the Moon's acceleration, with some participants attempting to clarify these concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the specifics of the Moon's recession or the mechanisms involved. There are competing views on the historical rates of recession and the explanations of tidal forces, leading to an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on assumptions about the constancy of tidal forces and the effects of friction, which are not fully explored or agreed upon. The discussion includes varying interpretations of gravitational interactions and their implications over time.

  • #31
Bjarne said:
How can friction between the oceans’ bodies of water and the sea bottom - explain that friction between 2 internal bodies on Earth can have such an effect on the Moon that its acceleration increases, - it has not been explained how a dynamic rotational force could be transferred to the Moon through space.
Can someone explain that, in simple words.

Easy. The friction causes the tidal bulges to lag behind the rotating Earth. Thus there's a non-conservative process occurring and the Moon is accelerated slightly by the bulge that's a bit ahead of rotationally. The gravity of the bulge, offset from perfect symmetry by friction, is what transfers energy between the Earth and the Moon. A perfectly frictionless interaction between the two would mean no net acceleration and no recession of the Moon.
 
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  • #32
Bjarne said:
The moon moves away from the Earth 3,8 cm per year.
In the past the velocity has been gradually increased.

I have read at the internet, that when the theory explaining this cause of this phenomena is correct the moon would for about 85 million years been orbiting 4 meters above the earth.

My own calculation shows this would have happen for about 1, 2 billion years ago (if this theory is correct).

We know that the moon is more than 4 billion years old, so how is it possible to keep believing such dictionary theory?

(sorry if this is not perfect English)

If the tides lost energy to friction as quickly as they do at present, then the Moon wouldn't last so long in its orbit. However there's nothing theoretical or observational saying the friction should remain the same and detailed modelling of how the tides change with the rotation rate and positions of the continents has shown the frictional loss was much, much lower in the past. Only in the last ~500 million years or so has the loss been so high. Tidal rhythmites are periodic sedimentary deposits laid down by daily tides. Fossil examples are known all the way back to ~3.2 billion years ago and they show the Moon wasn't much removed from its present orbit - at the closest it was about 38 Earth radii away (presently it's at ~60.)

When the Moon was formed or captured, the tidal forces were sufficient to cause large scale motions of the semi-fluid silicate mantle, causing very rapid energy dissipation and flinging the Moon out to a more distant orbit very rapidly. Further out the body tides, as such tidal deformations are called, became minor and the energy-loss rate become low, until the system hit its present configuration.
 
  • #33
Your are ignoring fluid friction, which increases the braking effect. Waves are the peak of the gravitational iceberg.
 
  • #34
Chronos said:
Your are ignoring fluid friction, which increases the braking effect. Waves are the peak of the gravitational iceberg.

Who's ignoring fluid friction? Which post are you replying to?
 

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