News The United States: your positive and negative

[Loren Booda]

The U.S. seems caught in a love-hate relationship with the rest of the world. What would you say is our most admirable quality, and what the most detestable?

 

[physics4ever]

I think the most admirable quality is your professionaism and work ethics. Thats why everyone from India wants to pursue atleast a post graduate degree in the U.S...to inculcate some of this into our own work.
As for the most detestable...well...maybe that America is thought of as the beginning and the end of the world(atleast it appears like that)
-Sunayana

 

[PerennialII]

The easy one first , negative : arrogance towards the rest of the world - "us & US against the rest attitude" (lack of honest global "solidarity", inability to truly tolerate & handle dissimilarity etc.)

Positive : the American dream and its spirit - reflects on entrepreneurship, innovation, frame of mind of people, productivity etc.

 

[Kerrie]

Not sure that America has an arrogant attitude towards the rest of the world, but perhaps more of an ignorant and inconsiderate one because our culture has spoiled many of us. Of course, not every American has this quality either.

America is great because our immigration laws welcome so many, unlike other countries. Our quality of life is a top concern, and when real disasters happen (such as the Tsunami), we give a lot of aid. I think our generousity is forgotten, but our negative actions are not.

America can do better with taking care of it's own people I think. Not in the sense of welfare, but our structure of how our healthcare programs are run. I just read in the news that a study showed that those paying health insurance premiums will bear the brunt of the bills not paid by the uninsured. I don't think this is fair to those who are working hard to pay these premiums, as it only makes costs rise, and more become uninsured. A cycle that is sure to go nowhere but financial disaster for our nation's healthcare system.

 

[vanesch]

The U.S. seems caught in a love-hate relationship with the rest of the world. What would you say is our most admirable quality, and what the most detestable?

Most admirable: the reality of the American Dream, in its action (optimism, work force, sense of responsability, respect for competence, social mobility...)

Most detestable: the dogma of the American Dream (its lack of respect for other views, and its inability to listen to others, the idea of own superiority).

 

[El Hombre Invisible]

Negative: American foreign policy.
Positive: American art.

 

[Art]

Positive: the fantasy - if America behaved in line with the principles of the Federation in Star Trek. (This is how I believe America sees herself)
Negative: the reality - America behaves more in keeping with the principles of the Borg and the Ferengi (This is how the rest of the world sees America)

 

[Rev Prez]

Negative: The American Left
Positive: Just about everything else.

Rev Prez

 

[loseyourname]

Positives: Protestant work ethic, the natural meritocracy of entrepeneurial capitalism, perseverance, strength. Geography is a huge plus as well. The cultural diversity you find in the big cities is another plus.

Negatives: Being extremely powerful naturally magnifies all of our mistakes and intensifies the criticism directed at us. As should be obvious, nations get as defensive as individuals do when criticized. This leads to stubborness and a sense of self-righteous justification in the face of accusations. That and the lack of notable artistic achievements. I love jazz and bluegrass music, but aside from these, the only thing I can think of is the Hollywood film.

 

[Kerrie]

another great thing about america is the geographic diversity, as loseyourname hinted at. we have so many different climates and weather zones here. if we were to split america up in countries according to these geographic differences, we would have many different nations!

 

[Smurf]

Positive: They're Rock and Roll

Negative: They're Politics and Media

 

[SamuelGreen800]

Positive: The post secondary education system, stability, and having all of the freedoms needed to live a normal, happy life.

Negatives: Our media and its constant sensationalism, the polarization of the country on political issues, and the shift toward hardcore nationalism among more and more citizens after 9/11. Being proud of your contry is one thing, but if you feel you can't criticize a democracy's political choices because of a party affiliation or something else, then something is wrong, and it isn't healthy for the country.

 

[Azimuth]

Pro: toleration, independence, an incredible "can-do" attitude, the will power to first teach ppl to dream and then purue them.

Con: ignorance! propaganda, unintelligent opinions...lots of little 'punks' running around bashing the government and Bush just because their local Hot Topic told them to...the worst thing i see in our country is that the citezens (*some citezens* please don't think I'm grouping everyone into this category) have become so spoiled and created such false 'havens' for themselves that they forget about the world, and don't feel a need to know what is REALLY going on...

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Pro: The ideals of freedom and justice. Even though the reality is not perfect I believe plenty of people have worked very hard for these ideals to be realized as much as they have been.

Con: The current culture that is more commerial than... "natural" maybe.. I'm not sure what word I'm looking for here so I hope you understand what I mean.
Devisivness and seperatism based on ignorance and arrogance. And I mean from all sides not just the rightwing groups that are mostly highlighted for these things.

 

[loseyourname]

This thread is beginning to remind me of Christopher Reeve in the first Superman movie saying with a perfectly straight face and sincere tone that he fights for "truth, justice, and the American way." A beautiful moment in film history.

 

[SOS2008]

Pro: Where to begin...in only a little more than 200 years this country has been built from shore to shore, beginning with a governmental system to ensure democracy and freedom, invention and advancement including accomplishments such as going to the moon, an incredible military, high standard of living, diversity, and, well I'll stop here.

Cons: We need more respect for the resources we've already used and often squandered, continue to invest in the people who built this country (the American workers), to protect the checks and balances that ensure democracy and freedom, continue to invest in invention and advancement, not abuse our military strength, and maintain tolerance of diversity. Add to that the need for more understanding of the world outside our borders--to have mutual respect for other countries, and form policies that will help the world to be a truly better place.

 

[chound]

I think the most admirable quality is your professionaism and work ethics. Thats why everyone from India wants to pursue atleast a post graduate degree in the U.S...to inculcate some of this into our own work.
As for the most detestable...well...maybe that America is thought of as the beginning and the end of the world(atleast it appears like that)
-Sunayana

Are u for real we go there to get big bucks. An engineering job here will fetch u Rs20000(per month $500) but in US it would give you $5000.
But I guess you will get a lot of funding and freedom for your research(and you could escape from the overpop in India).

Pro:I donno
Con: I donno
Since I never lived there

 

[1123581321]

Pro: diversity, opprotunity, high standard of living, "american dream",
Con: division, american self-hate, the willingness of some to do anything for money/power/publicity, but mostly division between left/right

fibonacci

 

[Pengwuino]

Its hard for me to figure a pro/can list because the US is so friggen big and diverse. One person in Oklahoma can say he loves the freedom of gun ownership but being here in California, i don't have a clue about what he's talking about. They could also say they love the few government regulations in Montana but again, in California i have no idea what they are talking about. They could also claim in Utah that its time consuming nad hard to vote but in California, i can throw a dart at a map and land on a voting station when it comes time to vote.

As for the view of the US, its crap again because of the huge diversity of the US. Everyone seems to think there's some ignorance in Americans (even though it applies similarly to their own nation but they won't admit it) but there's probably an incredible amount of reasons as to why that happens. Many of hte most vocal people in the US have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. A large amount of people get their information from that daily show which is on a station devoted entirely to comedy (as is the show) and these people for some reason have a huge voice.

Another problem is that ironically enough, the reasons people hate America are reasons brought about by the people who complain about people hating America. If you filter everyone through the left-right concept, most of the problems people have with America are caused by people on the left. Unfortunately most people around the world don't understand that if you can simplify the population into about 3 or 4 groups, each group probably wants another group to drop off the face of the Earth and do many things and believe in many things in complete contradiction to the other groups.

I think we're just too big to have a reasonable pro-con debate here.

 

[Pengwuino]

Being proud of your contry is one thing, but if you feel you can't criticize a democracy's political choices because of a party affiliation or something else, then something is wrong, and it isn't healthy for the country.

lol yah. God knows how quickly you get yelled at and criticized if you dare critized a Kerry voter or a democrat. Pretty much not allowed to support the President in this country...

 

[ray b]

Negative: The American Left
Positive: Just about everything else.

Rev Prez

negative
NEO-CONS and their christianrightwing allies ie the modern GOP
super rich who control the system and who are supporting
the exporting jobs and industry
and are the crooked CEOs
any one who supports the FCC and sex censors
or the DEA and the drug WAR
or bad laws, lawyers and the courts
uncontroled illegal imigration
uncontroled legal imigration

Positives
people
land
ideals we started with freedom justice fairness oppertunity

 

[neurocomp2003]

pros: Basketball, Science(CMU&UPITTS), american dream, video games, movies, the large army and there superior weapons(nucs, the robotic gatling they previewed in iraq etc)
cons: microsoft, ignorance OR arrogance, the perception of Canada.

 

[Astronuc]

Needs improvement - but then so does every other country.

 

[Bladibla]

I reckon the only problems that America has at the moment is that it is a superpower. This one point is the root of nearly all problems in America.

 

[Kerrie]

negative
NEO-CONS and their christianrightwing allies ie the modern GOP
super rich who control the system and who are supporting
the exporting jobs and industry
and are the crooked CEOs
any one who supports the FCC and sex censors
or the DEA and the drug WAR
or bad laws, lawyers and the courts
uncontroled illegal imigration
uncontroled legal imigration

Positives
people
land
ideals we started with freedom justice fairness oppertunity

I can agree with this to some degree...

 

[Maxos]

America's foreign policies CANNOT be but those you are describing, haven't you read Machiavelli? You cannot judge Politics with Ethics, American people should be worried but happy with their power, we, in Europe, are rightly frightened by your arrogance, but I understand it is necessary.

USA have to mantain their empire, the sole way is to stretch their "longa manus" over "off-phase-working" countries, and obviously keep their own arm armed.

America has got a huge amount of natural resources, that is why you rule the world (and, of course, because Germany lost WWI... btw Is it true that in american schools is taught that the reason for USA to enter the war was the sinking of Lusitania?).

Moreover you enjoy the benefits of a really united people, unity made possible by democratic ideals, rather than other forms of mass-controlling.

I do admire these abilities.

I also like american art, since you are the dominant culture in the world you express modern reality at the deepest level, and the best way you found is film-making, think of Kubrick, Tarantino ecc..

I dislike popular american ideals: Christianity, Ethics, Possibility, Escatology, Tendency to simplifying reality, Engeneering-oriented activities rather than love for pure knowledge, pseudo-pragmatism (the original German-English pragmatism is much deeper), Nationalism...

 

[ron damon]

The thing I despise about the US is its mainstream popular culture. How can the land which nurtures most of each year's Nobel prize winners also worship reality tv, MTV, wrestling, huge breasts, jocks, and all kinds of worthless celebrities?

Truly it is the land of extremes...

 

[Loren Booda]

If you call freedom extreme.

 

[Maxos]

Don't say "freedom"
Say "perception of freedom"

Freedom means nothing.

 

[ron damon]

If you call freedom extreme.

freedom is extreme, and that is what I meant. In America you see the full spectrum of the human condition, from the most wondrous to the vilest. That makes it so beautiful, but also so tragic...

 

[rachmaninoff]

Don't say "freedom"
Say "perception of freedom"

Freedom means nothing.

It means nothing until you've had it taken away from you. Then it's very, very real.

 

[Maxos]

Uff...

Let's correct.

"You don't have that perception until you have the contrary one"

Don't simplify reality, it is not simple.

Anyway: give me a definition of freedom (I suggest not to try, it's useless)

 

[quetzalcoatl9]

Anyway: give me a definition of freedom (I suggest not to try, it's useless)

From Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: free·dom
Pronunciation: 'frE-d&m
Function: noun
1 : the quality or state of being free: as a : the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b : liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : INDEPENDENCE c : the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous <freedom from care> d : EASE, FACILITY <spoke the language with freedom> e : the quality of being frank, open, or outspoken <answered with freedom> f : improper familiarity g : boldness of conception or execution h : unrestricted use <gave him the freedom of their home>
2 a : a political right b : FRANCHISE, PRIVILEGE
synonyms FREEDOM, LIBERTY, LICENSE mean the power or condition of acting without compulsion. FREEDOM has a broad range of application from total absence of restraint to merely a sense of not being unduly hampered or frustrated <freedom of the press>. LIBERTY suggests release from former restraint or compulsion <the released prisoner had difficulty adjusting to his new liberty>. LICENSE implies freedom specially granted or conceded and may connote an abuse of freedom <freedom without responsibility may degenerate into license>.

So the sticky part is:

"FREEDOM has a broad range of application from total absence of restraint to merely a sense of not being unduly hampered or frustrated."

which makes freedom somewhat subjective as a noun, but can take on a more specific role depending upon the context. It also says nothing about the intersection of two persons' freedoms - for that reason, political freedoms are usually spelled-out, such as in the U.S. Bill of Rights. Therefore, arguments like "well, we're not really free because we can't shout 'Fire' in a movie theater" don't hold water since that would infringe upon the freedoms of the other people.

 

[russ_watters]

I've never understood why people think words like "freedom" are that hard to define. Sure, you can get into complicated minutae, but the basics are pretty straightforward.

 

[Maxos]

How can you be a Phisicist and not understand my need of definitions?

Well, you can be satisfied with an "operative definition" (is this phrase used in English, too?) That is, you are everytime able to state whether one is free or not, and, of course, that's what you're trying to tell me, I suppose.

This would brobably be the method:
I say I am free, then think of Vietnam and say they are not free at all, why? Because I say: my perception of freedom in Vietnam would be worse than here, because of their living conditions.

Then, at least three problems emerge:

1) Where to put the limit between freedom and its contrary (which, notice, has never been turned into a precise word by human languages, "slavery" is something else)

2) Relativity: you might be interested in sharing your statements with other persons, of course, if you stay within a small community, there is no problem of misunderstanding, but if you consider a much larger society?

3) Stability of the standards of measurement: are you sure that your perception of freedom would be entirely aware of the slow changes in your own life-situation, remain the same and reproduce the same measurements, examining unchanged external specimens?


Do you know what "libertates" were to Romans? And to which Romans?
There is nothing universal! Nothing! Everything is culture, fading away with time and social changes.

 

[quetzalcoatl9]

There is nothing universal! Nothing!

can you define what you mean by this?

If I call the following statement:

P: "nothing is universal"

then this includes the statement P itself, which means that P is not universal, and hence there are times when P is not true. If P is not true, then it becomes "everything is universal", which would make P true.

Your statement is both true and false, and therefore meaningless. Such is what happens when speaking in paradoxes trying to sound profound.

 

[Maxos]

Hey Herr Godel, how do you do?

 

[quetzalcoatl9]

Hey Herr Godel, how do you do?

If you are familiar with Godel, then surely you can appreciate this.

You could at least say "nothing is universal, except this statement"

 

[wasteofo2]

That and the lack of notable artistic achievements. I love jazz and bluegrass music, but aside from these, the only thing I can think of is the Hollywood film.

No love for The Blues and Rock & Roll? What about great American playwrites like Arthur Miller and Tennessee Williams, or authors like Mark Twain and Ray Bradbury?

Positive: Being the first modern nation built upon the principals of liberty and democracy, and by influence, leading significant portions of the world towards governments founded in the same principles.

Negative: Having nearly wiped out the entire Native American population in order to achieve said liberty and democracy.

 

[wasteofo2]

America has got a huge amount of natural resources, that is why you rule the world (and, of course, because Germany lost WWI... btw Is it true that in american schools is taught that the reason for USA to enter the war was the sinking of Lusitania?).

In American schools it is taught that the sinking of the Lusitania, along with the general continuation of unrestricted submarine warfare by Germany, was one of the many things that brought the USA to enter WWI. This and the Zimmerman telegram are cited as very significant reasons why the USA entered WWI.

Clearly it was in the USA's interest to not allow Germany to win WWI, but the sinking of the Lusitania and the Zimmerman telegram, it is taught, were necessary to convince the American people that it was worth it to enter into a European war.

Our first President, George Washington, spoke strongly against "entangling alliances". He, and many of America's founders, wanted America to stay totally neutral towards Europe, so as to remain independent of the power struggles of Europe and make sure that Americans would never be killed in a European conflict. This attitude prevailed among the American people for scores of years, and certainly was prevalent before America entered into WWI. Without things like the sinking of the Lusitania by Germany and the Zimmerman telegram, it might not have been possible for the USA to enter into WWI, for the public did not distinctly see the interests of America threatened by events an ocean away.

 

[ron damon]

the fact that you can't define or prove "love" does not make it any less real

 

[vanesch]

Hey Herr Godel, how do you do?

The paradox cited is in fact Russel's paradox...

 

[mattmns]

Pros: Football!

Cons: Prison/law system, big corporations, rich politicians, transit system, dependence on oil, public school system (k-12).

 

[cragwolf]

Positive: A willingness to get things done; a concern with doing what is right; open doors for immigrants; the most benign empire in history; the best research institutions in the world.

Negative: A sick combination of the biggest porn industry in the world and an almost puritan attitude to sex in mainstream culture; a willingness to turn private, sensitive and/or medical issues into huge political battles (e.g. abortion, euthanasia, drug addiction); a breeding ground for the worst possible forms of Christianity: fundamentalist and evangelical; nothing is safe from being exploited for the purposes of making a quick buck: not children, not sex, not human fear, not art, not anything; one of the worst primary/secondary education systems in the developed world.

 

[Maxos]

the most benign empire in history

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah